I would go in the following order

1. 308 W enough for an elk but recoil can be managed. Especially for a new hunter. Last thing you want is him to hate it because the rifle beat him up. Ammo is cheap and available.

2.270 W barely beat out by 308 for all the same reasons

3. 30-06 more recoil

4 7mm even more recoil

5 300WM even more recoil

6 243 unsure if enough to hunt elk with. especially at longer distances that hunting elk sometimes happens.

 

+1 for the above. 308 is a great all around bolt gun caliber, lots of ammo options from dirt cheap to high end hunting loads. Recoil to me is very manageable, I can shoot 308 bolt guns all day and love it, 7mm, 300WM, etc. are fun for about 5 shots and then I start looking for the 6.8 or .277 WLV.

 

I have hunted with .243, .270 .308 and 30 06 but have never hunted Elk. I don't consider any of the rounds mentioned to be overkill for Elk, especially if there will be a possibility of long range shots but the .243 may be a little under kill for anyone who is less than an expert marksman and 7mm or 300WM may be too much for a new shooter to be able to shoot proficiently. I think if I had to make the choice it would probably be 308 given the light weight of the rifle model chosen due to less recoil and still plenty of juice to get the job done.

 

Since he's not going to reload, ammo selection will be huge. Who doesn't carry something in .30-06? You can find lighter recoil loadings, to some fairly heavy hitters. It's got enough ass to deal with a bear, will easily kill an Alaskan moose as well (mine has taken two).

Nothing wrong with any of those calibers...

 

Since he's not going to reload, ammo selection will be huge. Who doesn't carry something in .30-06? You can find lighter recoil loadings, to some fairly heavy hitters. It's got enough ass to deal with a bear, will easily kill an Alaskan moose as well (mine has taken two).

Nothing wrong with any of those calibers...

I actually thought seriously about the 06 and you may be right. If he starts out with say 150 grain loads it should have about the same recoil as a 308 but the ability to move up to some pretty serious bullet weights without having to reload or change rifles.

 

My vote would be 30-06. The amount of offerings is staggering. While it does have more recoil than 308, I find it to be very manageable. Can shoot everything from 110-220 gr, and will cover anything in North America should he want to continue hunting. While people in my area were snatching up 223, 308, 9mm, and 22LR during ammo scares, 30-06 constantly remained on the shelf, with a wide variety. I like 150 gr SSTs for deer, but you could easily pickup 180 gr Accubonds for bigger game. While it may not be necessary for mule deer and elk, the extra 200 ft lbs over a 308 is nice if you ever need it.

 

I own or have owned all those calibers except for the 300 WM (have a 338 WM). Given the criteria you specified, I also would go with the 30-06. Wide range of factory ammo, good resale value if he decides to sell, manageable recoil, and adequate for most NA game animals.

 

Any of the listed above the 308 will have a potential to discourage a non hunter and limited experience shooter with the higher recoil. I hunt with too many guys that do poorly with any thing greater than a 270(they become fairly good killing deer with 25-06, 243 level of rifles). One of the guys used a 30-06 for 3 years and we searched for wounded (or missed deer) every season (2 to 3X each season). Went to a 243 and were dropping deer for next 5-6 years. He was an avid shot gunner and great bird shooter. Another missed frequently with 284, 7RemMag, 270 until he switched to 243 and 25-06. Both were long time hunters.

I have 243, 7-08, 6.8, 300WinMag, 270 Win, 300WSM, 375H&H ,416 Rigby, 284 Win, 308s, etc. Never owned 30-06, did not like recoil; rather shoot 300WinMag as recoil seemed lower due to slightly heavier gun. I used to hunt with my 300WinMag when I lived in Australia and would often shoot 100-150 rounds in a 3-day hunt.

Of listed I think the 308 is my choice (but then I have at least 5 in that caliber). The 308 is ample for elk to 300+ yards and an inexperienced hunter need not chance a longer shot. If he must have more gun for elk and you cannot borrow one just for that elk hunt then you guys need to work on making friends. I have loaned my Sako 300WinMag ($2000+ rig counting a Leupold 4.5X14 Boone Crockett reticle) to a few friends with no hesitation. Buying too much gun for practice and learning to hunt is good way to discourage him. Just my 2 cents.

 

A good friend has a 30/06 for deer hunting, way overkill for our deer. I call it the pregnant mule, kicks like one. Not fun to shoot at all being a standard 700 SPS. For a new shooter, recoil can make a big difference in if they hunt or even shoot again.

I've never hunted anything bigger than a deer so not much help there. I'd pick no less than a .270 for Elk or moose though.

 

"lite loads"

I know that Hornady (and others) make "lite load" ammo for every caliber listed ....I wasn't sure if that would change anyone's thoughts as far as recoil goes- to start out with lite loads then progress to full power later...obviously the lite loads limit the effective range, but until the accuracy of gun and shooter is proven, the extra range is not needed... I was going to suggest the 308 or 30-06 also

 

Pick your favorite; that way if he doesn't like hunting you can snag the rifle from him real cheap!

 

well duh!!! that's a given :a04:....I already have a 270, 30-06, 308, and some others not listed... I'm lacking the 243/7mag/300mag, but not sure I need any of those calibers for my hunting needs here in CO ...I'm going to let him shoot my 270,-06/308 to see what he likes or doesn't like but I don't have the other 3 for him to try....If I just explained them all to him I'm sure he would gravitate to the biggest (300mag), but not sure he would like the recoil since he doesn't shoot much and he is on the smaller side (5'6/125)

 

Here is the scenario:
My brother-in-law is interested in Hunting....he has never hunted before...he has shot a rifle before, but is not an avid shooter....he has little $$ to spend

his caliber options are 243, 270win, 308w, 30-06, 7 rem mag, and 300 win mag.....

I was going to say any of the first three, but you said elk and I'm not too sure about a .243 with that. If we were talking GA and hunting whitetail, it is probably would what I recommend for someone in his position. The 270 or 308 would be the other two I'd recommend.

I've known several new hunters and shooters that had been convinced that they needed a 30-06, 7mm, or 300. Many of them gave up hunting because the gun wasn't really suitable for a new hunter/shooter. The ones that stuck with the sport, made the decision after they were convinced to try a lighter round.

 

My very FIRST gun was a Remington 700 ADL .30-06. I made friends with recoil from the get-go. :a26:

The nastiest shooting gun I had was a Savage 110 .300 WM with a straight combed stock. ALL of the recoil energy went straight back into your shoulder. Between that, and the butt ugly wood, I dumped it for what I had into it.

 

Different strokes for different folks. Just saying what I've seen happen too often.

 

If shooting the same projectile, a 308 and 30 06 in the same weight rifle are not going to have enough difference in recoil to be noticeable. You are talking roughly 200 fps difference.

 

My thoughts were the 308 or 30-06 as well. My mother use to hunt with a 308 and has killed several bull elk and mule deer with it. From the way it sounds you might just have to flip a coin to see which one wins.

 

New shooter - Elk caliber

Here is the scenario:
My brother-in-law is interested in Hunting....he has never hunted before...he has shot a rifle before, but is not an avid shooter.......he will never reload....he may not like hunting, and therefore sell his rifle he's going to buy.....
his caliber options are 243, 270win, 308w, 30-06, 7 rem mag, and 300 win mag.....

I have killed elk with the following:

270Win - 130grn Hornady, and 140grn Hornady.
The 270 is the minimum I would consider, and not my first choice. Killed 3 elk with this rifle, and none dropped in their tracks. One bull took three rounds in the lungs you could cover with the palm of your hand. All ran at least 150yds.
-
308Win - 165grn Hornady. A good step up from the 270 on the elk receiving end. One bull took 8-10 steps.
*** Suggest range work with 308 and lesser weight bullets for trigger time/experience, then step up to 165grn class for hunting. ***
-
300Win mag - 180grn Hornady. Good elk medicine. Two bulls. DRT. Very likely MORE Recoil than a 125lb new shooter should take on as a first rifle caliber to hunt with.
-
Do not even consider 243 for elk. Not for a new hunter after elk.

Dennis

 

Let him borrow one of yours till he makes up his mind.

 

My vote goes to .270 lots of energy, good ballistics and similar recoil to .308. My wife shoots one no problem.

 

I say .308 just due to popularity of the cartridge. It will be the easiest to sell. And .308 is popular for a reason. I frankly don't know why people still by new production 30-06 rifles. I'd like to add a Garand to my collection some day, but won't own a 30-06 until then. Otherwise, I'd probably prefer a 7mm-08.

 

I still ponder the reason why people automatically think that a heavier weight bullet is better for large game? if you stick strictly to mathematical numbers, a lot of times a faster lighter bullet can and will have more energy near the muzzle, they also will most often shoot flatter at close ranges. Something else to consider is usually the heavier bullet will in fact overcome both the energy and wind and sometimes the drop at further distances BUT this distance is usually around 300-400 yards and further, at this range MOST hunters shouldn't be taking a shot. Maybe the reason for this way of thought is due to the old cup/core bullet technology and the amount of retained bullet weights far greater in a heavier weight bullet....Now that there are monolithic bullets that not only reliably expand, but retain much more weight than their lead core partners, I feel that a lot of the time (at normal hunting distances of less than 300 yards) the lighter faster weight bullets are actually superior to their heavier weight brothers. ....BUT I wont buck the thought that a 300mag is "better" than a 270 in regards to total energy, as the numbers clearly show the energy is around 1.5X that of a 270, but if you flinch when you shoot a 300 mag and therefore create a "bad shot" by missing the vitals, then I would argue that a smaller caliber would down an animal quicker when placed correctly. Another thing that X-man has shown, is that often times, the bullets have more than one design based on weight (like the 110TSX vs 110 TTSX in .277 cal)....they will often have a faster expanding, and softer composition for the lower weight bullets so often times the lower weight bullets will in fact expand more than a heavier weight at the same velocity...BUT if you propel a bullet faster than what it was designed for (lets say you could shoot a 120sst from a 300 mag) ...then it is moving so fast, it will not hold together and therefore wont work well on large game either....I feel it is a balance of choosing your bullet composition in regards to caliber, muzzle velocity, and true hunting distances that should dictate your bullet weight for the caliber.

 

+1 to you - saw a study in one of gun rags, the 24 and 25-caliber rifles killed more deer than 30 calibers or 7 mm or anything else (I know it was deer but the theory is probably still sound). The 25 was the tops, mag theory was it was due to the milder recoil and thus more accurate shot... it was only one study, though... I think I would still think 270, the only elk I saw (Idaho) were 300 yds. I didn't take a shot, I only had iron sights and didn't trust myself.

 

I happened to be in my gunsmith's shop Tuesday when a guy brought in a .243 Remington 783. He had come directly from the range, and had four fired cases with him. Three appeared to be normal, but the fourth had a complete head separation. All out of the same box of factory ammo. The smith went over it and could see nothing immediately wrong, but I came to my own conclusions. The other three cases all had different shoulder positions, and it was easy to see when they were lined up side by side. The 'smith recommended he send it back to Remington, suspecting that the chamber was not right. That was my conclusion as well. I was not impressed either with the fit and finish. I've seen better on Sears Roebuck price point cheapies, nor have I read much good in reviews of that 783.

If you want a good rifle that won't break the bank, I'd go with the Ruger American that comes with the Redfield scope, chambered in 7mm-08. At least it will have some resale value if he decides he doesn't want to keep it.

 

as I said, not looking for rifle suggestions only caliber suggestions, due to his budget...there is really only one option for him, I'm not sure I have ever seen any other RTH package for $275 out the door (even used rifles) ...I do remember seeing the 770's a few years back in that price range, BUT they were not known for their accuracy among other things...I actually have seen lots of good reviews on the 783 accuracy, the only bad reviews I had seen were feeding issues back in 2013 when they were released that have since been remedied...I will agree that fit/finish is rough, I also will agree that the barrel has pretty rough machining marks (I saw about 8 in person at the LGS yesterday) and the trigger is not the best, but useable...I will say that some had a decent feel on the bolt, others were kind of rough for the cycling of the bolt, so it would help to hand pick one ....were don't really care about looks or fit or finish, just function and accuracy... s#*t on a shingle is what it is, BUT if you can hit what you are throwing it at then its now Flying s*#t on a shingle:a12:...all that matters to him at this point is to find a relatively accurate rifle in his price category...as long as we get him an appropriate caliber to do what he needs it to do then brand/color/looks/fit don't matter...besides "black is beautiful" right? ...besides the Ruger American's price point is about $400 with out scope, by the time you added a scope, rings, tax, etc you would more than double his budget...I'd rather see him spend the extra $$ on ammo and range time, practice will gain him more than a slightly better rifle will. ... I know there are other entry level rifles (savage, ruger, marlin, Mossberg, etc) BUT none seem to be near the same price point...I would say that the closest might be the savage axis, I have seen those for $289 for rifle olny, but again even for an entry scope and rings/bases plus tax, youd be around $450 not $275...this time price matters...maybe if he gets hooked then we can work him into saving a little more for a better base in the future, but a blue collar worker, single parent with 2 kids---we are lucky when he can scratch up $300

 

I am not a fan of the Rem. 783. To many other better bargin rifles for a few more
dollars. If you do buy the 783 I like 30-06. Ammo can be found in the tiniest town.
Most of my deer have been shot with that caliber. It's all personal preference. All
Are good except .243, a little light for elk.

 

Not trying to criticize because I understand budget constraints, but I think if he is hurting for money, spending in such a low budget rifle is a waste. I don't know if you are willing to loan him yours for any extended amount of time, but I am sure there is someone that will. Nothing turns off a new shooter more than the frustration. Whether that be the frustration of it not grouping, parts being loose, or whatever, it seems like he is doomed for failure. I know this is an unsolicited opinion since I have already given by caliber recommendation, but it seems that a loaner rifle for him to catch the "gun bug" might be more prudent. With that practice, he may find the limits of caliber-recoil, and know exactly what would fit him best (instead of a bunch of e-experts like us that are recommending calibers to someone we don't know). During that loaner period he could either decide he wants to stick with it (and purchase a higher quality rifle), or he can choose to turn and run from the gun industry (thus saving him from having to sell a used/low budget rifle).

Here is a great example of something he could get with 100 bucks more. Would retain value, and could be the building block if he ever wants to REALLY get into things and build up the action.

Remington 700 ADL

That is my long unsolicited opinion.

 

I don't know anything about the 783 but, I do know that the Marlin X7 is a pretty damn nice gun for the money. You may want to take a look at this: http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/scratch-and-dent-sale.html
Some pretty good prices going on there.

 

... can only find marlins in 243 or 270 on that scratch/dent sale, the 270 might be an option, but I'm thinking we'll steer away from the 243...we were heading toward 308 actually as then he could find $10/20 rounds of FMJ junk to practice with...its a shame that his budget is so limiting, BUT at least he's interested in giving it a shot.

Savage Axis line are usually accurate and are in the ~$300 range

true, but one again the $300 axis line does not come with a scope/mounts...you can easily spend $100-150 on a low end scope which again puts the total cost up near $450, and the axis is pretty close to the 783 anyway...the 10/110 series is much better but also higher priced.....anyone know if Stevens has any deals right now anywhere?

 

Savage Axis line are usually accurate and are in the ~$300 range

 

Buds has a savage axis II for $370 that I would take over a remmy 783 any day. It comes with accutrigger and weaver kaspa scope. http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/mobile/product/90728/redirect

 

I'm not debating which gun is better...please read the details....$300 top dollar out the door ready to hunt...your savage falls way over that$370 for rifle, $25+ to ship a rifle to a local ffl, $7 state background check, $20 LGS internet transfer fee....comes in around $425...$125 too much.

Unless you have a rifle you have found on sale for about $300 out the door (like Woodstock has found) then your point is moot ...I asked about caliber not your rifle suggestions, thanks for your input though.