[carbinero]

Family Guy thoughts on the 6.8spc

If you don't plan to shoot over 1,000 rounds per year, but you want an AR-15 for general purpose, this is the cartridge for you. The 6.8spc is hands-down the best AR-15, even better than the 5.56. I got into the AR platform a few years ago and looked forward to teaching my kids with it. Now that I have a 6.8 and understand what it can do, the 5.56 makes less sense. We train with BB guns and .22s and of course dryfiring. As they get older, I plan to train with Airsoft, force-on-force. None of that will change (due to economics or politics) whether we have 5.56s or 6.8s.

I've shopped like crazy, looking for good 5.56 hunting ammo. Black Hills 69 grain OTM and Hornady T2 will cost 75 cents to a dollar per round. Not much different from 90 grain 6.8spc which walks all over it, for any purpose I'll have. Cheap brass 5.56 ammo is minimum 50 cents around, so not much savings. I love p-mags and hope something like that will come along for the 6.8, but I don't lose sleep over that. I think we'll find the new 6.8s to be just as reliable as 5.56s, predominantly due to the work by Constructor and Tim leading up to the Xtreme upper (get one!)

So if you get confused or discouraged reading about people arguing about the 5.56 or Grendel being better choices, spend some more time reading other threads on this site. If you're worried about cost and availability of ammo, so are all the gun guys, regardless of caliber. Whatever AR you decide on, plan on buying at least 1,000 rounds, and adding to that number as you can afford it. If politics go to heck, just cut back a little...like everyone else.

 

[joshuades]

Given the whole rigamarole behind Caporider's recent post, and that the thread was locked while I was writing a dissertation on the subject ( :lol: I lost the whole damned post, Paulo), I feel it necessary to point out some things:

The 6.8 cartridge has been around for almost six years now. In that almost six years, I've seen the round progress faster than any other round I've ever studied. However, like I stated, the round is not quite six yet. There hasn't been sufficient time for a blanket standardization to take place which takes advantage of the full potential of the cartridge. The demand for 6.8 specific parts and ammo vastly out numbers the supply at this time (which is the case for most parts and ammo right now due to the climates of the political machine and firearms industry).

Folks here are want to compare this cartridge to others which have been around for 50+ years and are standard military calibers. At this time, comparisons like these are akin to comparing apples to aardvarks. Both the 7.62NATO and the 5.56NATO rounds have gone through the same iterations the 6.8 is going through now, though they went at a slower pace. Each round (and remember the 45+ deficite the 6.8 has in years) has varying combinations of chamber, barrel, ammo and general performance which make it prudent to do some research before finalizing a decision on what it is you expect out of them.

Since it's inception, the 6.8 has developed a client base of thousands. Given the same time frame from the birth of the 7.62 and 5.56, within five years of their production there were probably only hundreds of folks shooting those rounds (barring the military). This vast difference in civilian adoption has been the engine driving the improvements of the platform, but this is still a young cartridge.

Both the 5.56 and 7.62 have had the time and the military provided luxury to have built up a surplus of ammo, which drives costs down due to the supply/demand relationship. Right now, for the 6.8, there is a supply/demand offset that disallows competition and ergo the lowering of prices which competition drives. These older cartridges have also had the time for industry to develope loads for the varying configurations of barrel/chamber for these two cartridges. There developed different name bases on these configurations (.223/5.56, .308Win/7.62). The 6.8 has a possibility of following the same path given time (.270k?/6.8 ). The lack of a plinking round hampers the expansion of the cartridge much, but a plinking round will be made, eventually. However, the 6.8 round is bigger than the 5.56, and thusly will cost more to produce. It will probably never get as cheap as 5.56 ammo, even if it developes equivalent surplus (just as you wouldn't expect comparable 7.62 rounds to be cheaper).

In the end, one of the most important things to remember is to have patience. As I've said already, this cartridge is young. There hasn't been ample time for things to iron out (and the major gun scare hasn't helped any). Until these rounds become more equal in these fashions, it is important to realize what the comparisons are and why they are unfair.

 

[ArtFWTx]

Re: Family Guy thoughts on the 6.8spc

Well said.

 

[Jamesb74]

Nice post well said

 

[rmcdermid]

Has anyone studied the terminal ballistics of aardvarks? What mags should I use? Who makes an aardvark upper?

:twisted:

 

[owenslee]

VERY well stated Joshuades...!

Personally I would like the civilian 6.8 SPC cartridge identified as the "270 Compact"...or "270 Short".

Kerry

 

[caporider]

Re: Family Guy thoughts on the 6.8spc

If you don't plan to shoot over 1,000 rounds per year, but you want an AR-15 for general purpose, this is the cartridge for you. The 6.8spc is hands-down the best AR-15, even better than the 5.56.

Thank you for pointing out excellent reasons to own and shoot a 6.8 AR. There is not and has never been any debate about the stand-alone effectiveness of the 6.8 in terms of terminal ballistics, barrier penetration, downrange KE, etc.

I got into the AR platform a few years ago and looked forward to teaching my kids with it. Now that I have a 6.8 and understand what it can do, the 5.56 makes less sense. We train with BB guns and .22s and of course dryfiring. As they get older, I plan to train with Airsoft, force-on-force. None of that will change (due to economics or politics) whether we have 5.56s or 6.8s.

I've shopped like crazy, looking for good 5.56 hunting ammo. Black Hills 69 grain OTM and Hornady T2 will cost 75 cents to a dollar per round. Not much different from 90 grain 6.8spc which walks all over it, for any purpose I'll have. Cheap brass 5.56 ammo is minimum 50 cents around, so not much savings. I love p-mags and hope something like that will come along for the 6.8, but I don't lose sleep over that. I think we'll find the new 6.8s to be just as reliable as 5.56s, predominantly due to the work by Constructor and Tim leading up to the Xtreme upper (get one!)

Again, hunting with a compact, capable 6.8 AR package is definitely a game-changing development, one that really shows the 6.8's strengths. As for reliability, my current 6.8 rifles are very reliable - no different than any well-assembled 5.56 AR. My first Stag 6.8 was not reliable (gas port issues leading to short stroking, failures to feed), so 6.8s have come a long way for sure.

A minor point, but cheap brass 5.56 is closer to $.40/round.

So if you get confused or discouraged reading about people arguing about the 5.56 or Grendel being better choices, spend some more time reading other threads on this site. If you're worried about cost and availability of ammo, so are all the gun guys, regardless of caliber. Whatever AR you decide on, plan on buying at least 1,000 rounds, and adding to that number as you can afford it. If politics go to heck, just cut back a little...like everyone else.

You've done a great job of laying out exactly how 6.8SPC matches up with your shooting needs/wants/activities.

 

[dark1]

Personally I would like the civilian 6.8 SPC cartridge identified as the "270 Compact"...or "270 Short".

i would go with ".270 kurtz" just sounds cooler and it will go back to the roots of the Sturmgewehr ( Assault Rifle ) withthe granddaddy of all Assault rifle ammo the 8mm Kurtz for the SG 44

 

[nova]

Re: Family Guy thoughts on the 6.8spc

If you don't plan to shoot over 1,000 rounds per year, but you want an AR-15 for general purpose, this is the cartridge for you.

Thats the #1 reason I'm going with a 6.8 Xtreme for my current AR build.

I'm an engineer and in typical fashion, I'm always looking for the optimal solution. I really like the potential effectiveness of the 6.8 in a compact platform.

With the proper bullets, the round is already a proven hunting round and is an effective barrier penetrator. Logically, what makes it a good hunting round will make it good at putting a human being down for the count.

This fits my goals of having 2 ammo stashes, one smaller with home defense rounds like the Vmax or a SP and one larger "just in case" stash with something like the 85gr TSX that can be used for hunting or defensive purposes.

 

[rmcdermid]

Re: Family Guy thoughts on the 6.8spc

Brass being cheaper isnt a huge issue. What is HUGE for me is that I can easily get .223 brass for FREE off of the ground at the range. That is the big difference for me when it comes to ammo cost. That and I can get FMJs to load for practice very cheap.

 

[Jamesb74]

Re: Family Guy thoughts on the 6.8spc

Brass being cheaper isnt a huge issue. What is HUGE for me is that I can easily get .223 brass for FREE off of the ground at the range. That is the big difference for me when it comes to ammo cost. That and I can get FMJs to load for practice very cheap.

Where are you finding the fmj's

 

[rmcdermid]

Re: Family Guy thoughts on the 6.8spc

well i can walk into cabelas and get winchester fmjs for 11 and remington fmjs for 10 if they are in stock...winchester usually is

 

[rmcdermid]

Someone should merge the two threads that spawned off of the locked on. I am not sure why it was locked. It seemed like the agitated parties calmed down. Eh I am not the admin.

 

[carbinero]

Re: Family Guy thoughts on the 6.8spc

I'm glad this went over O.K. I spend a lot of time the last few years encouraging friends to buy guns and go shoot, so I've spent a lot of time thinking on their behalf.

When I say "family guy," one of the main points I am alluding to is that your average guy doesn't have time to shop for hours online, trying to save 10 cents a round. And it may not matter, if he only shoots 250 rounds a year anyhow. Further, none of my friends or I can get into reloading for the next few years...not so much due to the cash outlay, but more for the other logistics. If you have one or more kids under 10 years old, odds are you'd rather spend time shooting, hiking, etc., or even some rare quality time with your spouse, than reloading. So I dislike the argument: "6.8spc (or you name the caliber) is fine, if you reload." That just isn't a relevant argument for "average family guy." Lack of reloading hasn't stopped my bolt action buddies with 270weatherbys, 300winmags, etc.

(disclaimer: more power to you reloaders, and I hope to join you before too long...)

 

[Strawdawg]

Re: Family Guy thoughts on the 6.8spc

If cheap brass is .40 cents a round, then the members price for 6.8 is in the same ball park....the number of reloads possible from good brass makes it a relatively small price of the total equation. Seems to me that if one shoots in volume, then reloading is an obvious alternative to buying over the counter.

Given the current atmosphere, I don't see cheap ammo any time soon. I don't think this is "short time scare" phenomenon. I think it will be like cigarettes, highly taxed. Once such things are implemented, they are seldom rolled back. Be nice to be wrong, but, I ain't betting any of my money on it.

 

[sharpshooter08]

Re: Family Guy thoughts on the 6.8spc

+1 for a sticky and well said carbinero

 

[caporider]

Re: Family Guy thoughts on the 6.8spc

If cheap brass is .40 cents a round, then the members price for 6.8 is in the same ball park....the number of reloads possible from good brass makes it a relatively small price of the total equation. Seems to me that if one shoots in volume, then reloading is an obvious alternative to buying over the counter.

Given the current atmosphere, I don't see cheap ammo any time soon. I don't think this is "short time scare" phenomenon. I think it will be like cigarettes, highly taxed. Once such things are implemented, they are seldom rolled back. Be nice to be wrong, but, I ain't betting any of my money on it.

To clarify, cheap brass factory loaded 5.56 is $.40/round.

 

[joshuades]

Someone should merge the two threads that spawned off of the locked on. I am not sure why it was locked. It seemed like the agitated parties calmed down. Eh I am not the admin.

The horse had died. Most likely Paulo locked it so it wouldn't get any worse (as is always the potential with a runaway topic).

Has anyone studied the terminal ballistics of aardvarks? What mags should I use? Who makes an aardvark upper?

:twisted:

Never thought about a projectile aardvark. I have seen a chicken blaze through a bullet train cockpit. The train engineers tested the cockpit of the train simulating a bird strike. Someone forgot to thaw out the chicken and it buried itself into the back wall after smashing through the windsheild and chair.

VERY well stated Joshuades...!

Personally I would like the civilian 6.8 SPC cartridge identified as the "270 Compact"...or "270 Short".

Kerry

I actually have to describe the round that way for those who haven't been introduced to it here. .270Win is a popular hunting cartridge down here, so people can relate to it. Then they look at me like I've grown another head when I tell them the velocities I can get out of this little cartridge.

 

[marinesg1012]

No to a name change... it is bad enough now that we have the SPC II chamber... I have no issue calling it special... it does have a special purpose... it is for those of us who want to hunt with a Black rifle or a super light weight bolt gun.....

 

[Empty Brass]

Good writing J.

VERY well stated Joshuades...!

Personally I would like the civilian 6.8 SPC cartridge identified as the "270 Compact"...or "270 Short".

Kerry

Honestly, makes sense but probably not a good idea. There are too many 270's now. I like the 6.8 classification. 270 win, 270WSM come to mind and the ruam's or whatever they are. Throw a 270 short and also 270winchesters short mag in there and it will cause more problems. People try to shove 270 wins into wsms and vice versa. Same with the 300's. It gets complicated for the general public. They see 270 so it all fits.

If you dont believe me hang out for awhile at dealers a week before deer season. :