[snaz567]

Finally got a chance to work up some loads using my 18" WOA SPCII 1-11 6 groove. I still have loads loaded w/BLC-2 & H322 for 110 Pro Hunters and 115 SMK's, but unfortunately I had to cut my range session short as I ran out of time. Hopefully, I'll get a chance either Friday or next Monday to get back out and finish. I'm not sure how accurate my chrony is. It's a Chrony Beta Master that I just got, so some of you others may have more experience w/it. I know there was a couple of loads that seemed to have a pretty big jump from one loading to the next. I also (due to my poor shooting) had a few flyers, so those are noted w/and w/out the flyers. All are 5 shot groups. All were shot suppressed @ 100yrds. 81 degrees. Wind @ 6.4mph when I left for the range. It was anywhere from calm to slightly gusty throughout the session.

ETA: All loads were SSA virgin brass, COAL: 2.28, w/CCI #41's w/LFCD

The Nosler 130g BT's:
BLC-2-- AVG FPS--ES----Group
28.8g--2181------11------1.406"
29.1---2207-------12------1.630"
29.4---2222-------24------1.248"
29.7---2256-------23------0.806"
30.0---2266-------19------1.269"
30.3---2297-------27-------1.465"
30.6---2315-------23------0.672"
30.9---2339-------09------0.848"
31.2---2353-------15------0.825"
31.5---2386-------21------0.545 w/out flyer and 1.694" w/the flyer
I never had any over pressure signs of any kind w/the BLC-2. I'm going to try to load up another grain in increments, but I just don't know how much more I can fit. I already had about as much powder in it as I think I can fit safely. I was putting a pretty good sized dent around the ogive w/the seater die.

Nosler 130g BT's & H322
25.3---2261------33--------0.917"
25.6---2278------21--------0.672"w/out flyer and 1.507" w/the flyer
25.9---2294------18--------1.269"
26.2---2330------12--------0.709"w/out flyer and 1.525" w/the flyer
26.5---2342------15--------1.191"
26.8---2354------42--------0.847"
27.1---2383------10--------1.091"
27.4---2391------18--------0.843"
27.7---2426------9---------0.836" I started seeing very light ejector swipes on this load.
28.0---2432------14--------1.109"

Nosler 130G BT's and AA#9
9.0----1225----101--------2.004"
9.5----1242-----92---------1.127"
These both seemed to key hole @ 100, but I didn't see any @ 5ft when I was making sure they were ok to mount the suppressor.

90TNT's and RE7
28.5---2801------38----------1.116"
28.8---2849------27----------1.109"
29.1---2855------22----------0.684"
29.4---2911------21----------0.822"
29.7---2947------47----------0.941"
30.0---2979------21----------0.931"w/out flyer and 1.428" w/the flyer, I also started seeing very light ejector swipes @ this load
30.3---3001------32----------1.316"

I would have rather worked up the 115 SMK's and 110 PH's instead of the 130 Noslers, but didn't think my range time would be cut short like it was. Otherwise, I would have started w/those instead. Hopefully I can get those worked up w/in the next week or so. I did get to shoot seveal prarie dogs ranging from 50-200yrds and I must say the TNT's are brutal on them.

I think I could cut the groups down a little more and I'm not that great of a shooter to start w/. Some of you guys could probably really make it shine. I had ran about 2-300 rounds thru it before the end of the day as I had done quite a bit of prarie dog hunting and random shooting before I started working these up. I just ran a bore snake thru it a few times w/some solvent between strings. And of course, all were shot suppressed which is just brutal on the carbon buildup.

 

[rushca01]

Thanks for the info! Keep it coming!

 

[paulosantos]

I definitely want to see how the BLC-2 works with the SMK and the Pro-Huinters.

 

[68inSS]

Great work!

 

[snaz567]

Update more loads 06/14/09

I got a chance today to go test out the rest of the loads I loaded up. Actually I've been working half night-half day shifts lately, so I got off at 4a.m. this morning and decided to hit the range at dawn so I wouldnt' be bothered.

Again, all were five shot groups, CCI #41/SSA Virgin Small Rifle/2.280 COAL, shot @ 100yrds suppressed. No wind. 40-50 degrees. Flyers are noted.

110 Pro Hunters and H322

Charge-----AVG FPS-------ES-------Group
27.8--------2513-----------25-------1.104"
28.1--------2524-----------27-------1.105" w/out flyer and 2.212" (ouch) w/flyer
28.4--------2548-----------12-------0.778"
28.7--------2578-----------18-------1.186"
29.0--------2591-----------12-------0.705"
29.3--------2615-----------23-------0.977"
29.6--------2630-----------23-------0.850"
29.9--------2661-----------28-------0.687" w/out flyer and 1.512" w/flyer I had faint ejector swipes on two of the five cases here.
30.2--------2669-----------27-------0.679"
30.5--------2687-----------24-------0.698"

The odd thing is that I never had any flattened or cratered primers at any of the loads. All of the primers looked far better than even factory ammo out of my 223's or 308's. It's been awhile since I've shot any 6.8 factory ammo so I can't comapre. I'm going to keep it back down under the 29.9 and try some ten shot groups at 29.6 and 29.8 to see how those turn out.

Pro Hunters and BLC-2

32.9--------2461-----------37-------0.898"
33.2--------2479-----------29-------0.630" w/out flyer and 1.103" w/the flyer
33.5--------2512-----------41-------0.973"
33.8--------2527-----------31-------0.766"
34.1--------2544-----------21-------0.959"
34.4--------2586-----------38-------1.174"
34.7--------2593-----------29-------1.282"
35.0--------2634-----------25-------0.901"
35.3--------2652-----------45-------0.994"
35.6--------2681-----------31-------0.708"

It looked like there might be very faint ejector swipes on the 35.6gr loads, but I had no flattened primers or craters. It was just barely a little more shiny where the ejector hit if you looked at it in the right light. Nothing really noticable like I've seen on the H322 or RE7 loadings I've worked up.

115 SMK's and BLC-2

30.2--------2293----------32----------0.984"
30.5--------2302----------41----------0.898"
30.8--------2346----------43----------0.802"
31.1--------2368----------55----------1.015"
31.4--------2386----------47----------1.007"
31.7--------2415----------47----------1.280"
32.0--------2429----------43----------1.202"
32.3--------2481----------46----------1.135"
32.6--------2496----------38----------1.014"
32.9--------2520----------49----------0.885"

Again, I had no pressure signs w/the SMK's and the BLC-2. The velocity #'s aren't to bad, I reached as high in BLC2 w/the Pro hunters as I did w/the H322, but accuracy wasn't quite as good. I'm going to go ahead and work up both the SMK and Pro Hunters w/BLC back up another grain in 0.3 increments until I see pressure signs. We'll see. I may already be at max w/the pro hunters. I didn't have enough of the SMk's to load up w/H322 to compare the two. I think I can get some more FPS out of the SMK's tho.

Here's a 10 shot group I managed to get off at the end, 29.4gr RE7 and 90gr TNT's. It was shot w/ about two seconds between shot. Basically as soon as I could get aligned again:

Avg: 2886fps ES:46 The inner group is 0.822" and the two outer shots open it up to 1.436" I'm going to load up 29.7gr and try a ten shot group of that. Hopefully I'll get a chance soon to take both loads out to 200 and 300 and see which one will hold up the best.

 

[borderpatrol]

Nice group and great info. Thanks.

 

[paulosantos]

110 Pro Hunters and H322

Charge-----AVG FPS-------ES-------Group
27.8--------2513-----------25-------1.104"
28.1--------2524-----------27-------1.105" w/out flyer and 2.212" (ouch) w/flyer
28.4--------2548-----------12-------0.778"
28.7--------2578-----------18-------1.186"
29.0--------2591-----------12-------0.705"
29.3--------2615-----------23-------0.977"
29.6--------2630-----------23-------0.850"
29.9--------2661-----------28-------0.687" w/out flyer and 1.512" w/flyer I had faint ejector swipes on two of the five cases here.
30.2--------2669-----------27-------0.679"
30.5--------2687-----------24-------0.698"

Pro Hunters and BLC-2

32.9--------2461-----------37-------0.898"
33.2--------2479-----------29-------0.630" w/out flyer and 1.103" w/the flyer
33.5--------2512-----------41-------0.973"
33.8--------2527-----------31-------0.766"
34.1--------2544-----------21-------0.959"
34.4--------2586-----------38-------1.174"
34.7--------2593-----------29-------1.282"
35.0--------2634-----------25-------0.901"
35.3--------2652-----------45-------0.994"
35.6--------2681-----------31-------0.708"

115 SMK's and BLC-2

30.2--------2293----------32----------0.984"
30.5--------2302----------41----------0.898"
30.8--------2346----------43----------0.802"
31.1--------2368----------55----------1.015"
31.4--------2386----------47----------1.007"
31.7--------2415----------47----------1.280"
32.0--------2429----------43----------1.202"
32.3--------2481----------46----------1.135"
32.6--------2496----------38----------1.014"
32.9--------2520----------49----------0.885"

This is a perfect example of how the accuracy nodes work. Check out the Pro-Hunters with the H322 powder. Notice that the best accuracy is in the 28.4 GR Range and then the accuracy slightly drops off and it tightens back up around 30.5 GR. Now check out the Pro-Hunters with the BLC-2. It does the same thing. The Charges are different for the BLC-2, but the velocities are pretty much the same. And for both of them, the accuracy nodes are approximately 2 GR apart. If you check the 115 GR SMK with BLC-2, it is the same thing. At 30.8 GR, the accuracy is the best and opens up until he got to 32.9 GR.

With that info, you can take any powder that you have, let's say H335. Using the Pro-Hunters, if you loaded up the Pro-Hunters with H335 (approximately 29 GR) to a MV of 2527-2548 FPS, you would have similar accuracy. And then again around 2680 FPS, you would have great accuracy again.

You can do that with any bullet and powder. When looking for pure accuracy, it is a great idea to use the .3 GR incriments like sanz did.

 

[snaz567]

Thanks for pointing that out like that. I've read all of you guys posts on the different methods of load development, but I didn't even notice that. The BLC-2 did work out better than I had expected it too. Not bad velocities and groups at all. I am going to try and work some up w/the TNT's and Accubonds as well to see how those perform. I'm a big fan of the BLC-2 in my other calibers and had hoped for decent results in the 6.8. I need to get some H335 and compare the two in all of my different calibers. I'm only a novice reloader and the possibilities seem endless. I'm really interested in seeing how much more I can get out of it before I hit the max.

 

[paulosantos]

Thanks for pointing that out like that. I've read all of you guys posts on the different methods of load development, but I didn't even notice that. The BLC-2 did work out better than I had expected it too. Not bad velocities and groups at all. I am going to try and work some up w/the TNT's and Accubonds as well to see how those perform. I'm a big fan of the BLC-2 in my other calibers and had hoped for decent results in the 6.8. I need to get some H335 and compare the two in all of my different calibers. I'm only a novice reloader and the possibilities seem endless. I'm really interested in seeing how much more I can get out of it before I hit the max.

If you are using the RE7 with the 90 GR bullets, I bet the the 27.5 and 29.5 GR loads will be the most accurate. I know with the H4198 and the 90 GR bullets, the sweet spot is 28.6 GR.

 

[marinesg1012]

thanks for the info, keep up the good work.

 

[snaz567]

More for 06/21

I got back out this morning and continued to work up the Pro Hunters and the SMK's w/BLC-2 and H322. The only variation this round is that the brass is once fired, instead of virgin.

Pro Hunters and BLC-2 Cont'd from 32.9-35.6 loadings last week..

Charge-------Avg. FPS-----ES--------Group
35.6----------2648----------54--------0.691"
35.9----------2677----------25--------0.876"
36.2----------2692----------23--------1.143" I had very faint ejector swipes
36.5----------2722----------52--------1.050" The ejector swips on this load were very easy to see.

10-Shot group w/110 Pro Hunter and 29.0gr of H322

Avg:2569 ES: 29.24 Group: 0.774"

10-shot group w/SSA 110gr Pro Hunter Factory Ammo. I can't remember if this is the Combat Loads or not. I've had them loaded in a mag for about a year now...

Average: 2687, ES: 73, Group: 1.018" In all honesty, I pulled two of the shots in this group. If I did my part, it could easily do under an 1", if not under 0.75".

While the H322 groups great, I just wish that I could get the velocities w/the H322 that I seem to be getting w/the BLC-2. I've got to get some RE10 and give that a try.

Is this roughly the same velocities that you guys are getting using the H322/Pro Hunter Combo?

The BLC-2 just seems to whip the H322 in this barrel all around so far. The drawback is that the BLC-2 loads are so compressed that, you'd have to run it thru a meter w/two throws maybe? Half each throw and compress the load in between maybe? Not sure if that would work, but not being able to meter kinda takes away the main benifit of the BLC-2 in my experience. YMMV.

115 SMK's and BLC-2

Again this is just a couple grains higher added on to what I worked up last week of 30.2-32.9gr loadings
Charge Avg FPS ES Group
33.2--------2521--------19-------0.711"
33.5--------2540--------23-------0.944
33.8--------2588--------34-------0.689
34.1--------2567--------21-------0.687 I'm not sure what happened here, it averaged lower than the last lower charge?
34.4--------2595--------46-------0.931
34.7--------2633--------72-------0.520 w/out flyer and 0.934 w/the flyer
35.0--------2652--------68-------0.879 I had visible ejector swipes on this loading
35.3--------2705--------52-------1.008

Again, while the accuracy wasn't nearly as good as the H322, the velocities were much better w/the BLC-2 again. Did I say I need some RE10 to try?

115 SMK's and H322

Charge Avg FPS ES Group
27.2--------2405-------79-------0.966"
27.5--------2416-------31-------0.794"
27.8--------2461-------47-------0.947"
28.1--------2510-------34-------0.729"
28.4--------2519-------51-------0.524"
28.7--------2530-------31-------0.304" *This is a personal best for me. See Below*
29.0--------2575-------43-------0.609" I had visible ejector swipes w/this loading
29.3--------2592-------73-------1.099"

While it didn't have great velocities, it's accuracy really shined w/the SMK's. The 28.7gr load was a personal best five shot group for me. It measured 0.581" from outside to outside and 0.304" from center to center:

I was really pleased w/the group(to say the least!). I'm sure some of you guys can do this all day, but I'm not that great of a shot. I'm still impressed that I was able to shoot that good today. I've only gotten below a half-inch twice before and both of those were in the 0.4'"s w/my krieger bbl'd .308 WIN and handloaded 168gr SMK's. It just goes to show that John makes some damn fine barrels. I still need to find out what blank he used for this one.

I wanted to see if the BLC-2 might be an option for the lighter bullets, so I loaded up 90 TNT's over 37.0gr of the BLC-2 and tried a five round group of that. While it had good accuracy, it's velocity was lacking to say the least.

Average: 2710, ES: 34, Group: 0.850"

I finished of the session w/both of the SSA factory loads I had on hand. The Pro Hunters, listed above, and the 85gr TSX's. Again, to be honest, I don't think I did my part again. There was a gentleman who set up about 4ft to my right w/an SKS. I always forget to bring ear protection anymore and I think his shooting right next to me had a lot to do w/it. My ears were ringing afterwards anyways...

SSA 85gr TSX Factory Ammo

Average: 3141, ES: 69, Group: 1.114"

I have some of these comming in from Midway this week, so hopefully I'll get a chance to work those up next week or the week after. I also want to try some Accubonds in the near future.

I'm also wanting to get a heavier buffer/spring combo. I think I could increase the charges slightly before seeing the ejector swipes if I did this. I was unable to run an adjustable gas block under the DD rail on this rifle and it is definetely over-gassed. It ejects @ about 1:45-2:00 o'clock. I'm seeing extractor marks before I'm seeing ejector swipes. I swapped out my carrier on my 308 for one of Slash's XHeavy buffers and it did make a difference in the flattening/cratering of primers on that rifle. So I figure I'll give it a shot on this one. No question that it is over-gassed.

If you guys have any advise or suggestions, they're always appreciated.

 

[borderpatrol]

I take exception with your statement "that I'm not that good a shot". Obviously you are. Targets don't lie. Good shooting and thanks for posting.

 

[ron169]

I agree, but would hate to see what you think a good shooter is capable of. Btw, thanks for being the guenie pig with the BCL-2 powder. Those are some prett good velocities.

 

[snaz567]

Thanks guys, I appreciate the compliments. The stars were just aligned today. To prove that theory, I picked up 10-15lbs of various .223, .308, 40, 9, 45, 30 Carbine, and even quite a few 5.7x28 empty brass. I don't think I've seen any brass other than 7.62x39 berdan primed laying on the ground in months.

 

[razzman1]

Great information, thanks for your work. Just curious...What effect on velocity does the supressor have?

 

[paulosantos]

A slow hit is better than a fast miss. With accuracy like that, why mess with it?

 

[snaz567]

Great information, thanks for your work. Just curious...What effect on velocity does the supressor have?

So far, I'd have to say little to none. Once in a while my HI will be a couple fps faster w/the suppressor mounted, but they seem to pretty much hold the same average in a group. If it had a tighter bore, maybe I'd get a small increase, but as it is, I see no change really.

 

[snaz567]

A slow hit is better than a fast miss. With accuracy like that, why mess with it?

That reminds me of Steve's pages from Steve4102, and holds just as true I'm sure. I'm not going to be hunting w/the SMK's, so the paper won't care how fast it's going. So you're right, best to just leave it be.

 

[snaz567]

More for 07/20/09

I got back out to the range today to work up some more loads. I worked up loads w/the Hornady 110 BTHP' using H322, H335, RE10x, and BLC-2. I thought some of you guys might find this comparison interesting. These were all shot w/Virgin SSA Brass/CCI #41/COAL: 2.280. Also, all were shot suppressed. Temperature started off around 60 and was at 75 degrees by the time I left. Humidity was 65% at my house. I'm not sure what it was at the range (30 miles into the mountains from where I live), but it did start raining as I left.

Hornady 110gr BTHP & H322
Charge-------AVG FPS-------E.S.------S.D.--------Group
28.4-----------2524----------35.86----16.21------1.321"
28.7-----------2539----------22.33----10.67------1.077"
29.0-----------2591----------17.75----8.3---------0.857"
29.3-----------2620----------24.81----9.55--------0.528" w/out flyer and 0.998" w/flyer; 3 of 5 had swipes

W/ BLC-2 (All Compressed)
35.0-----------2658----------16.52----7.07--------1.250"
35.3-----------2677----------60.83----25.27-------1.005"
35.6-----------2713----------28.56----19.59-------1.110"
35.9-----------2745----------19.59----8.6----------0.912"
36.2-----------2766----------48.99----22.53-------0.709" w/out and 1.675" w/flyer; 3 of 5 had swipes
36.5-----------2813----------17.77----8.24---------0.910" I had visible Ejector Swipes w/this load.

W/ RL10x
28.4-----------2739----------31.6------11.61--------0.925"
28.7-----------2749----------27.55----13.07--------1.797" I'm not sure why such a big increase in group? Poor shooting I guess.
29.0-----------2764----------41.12----17.37--------1.127"
29.3-----------2777----------27.54----10.9----------0.988" 3 of 5 had visible Ejector Swipes
29.6-----------2792----------40.27----15.45--------0.844" All cases had Ejector swipes w/this load.

W/ H335
31.7-----------2655----------23.29----11.00---------1.408"
32.0-----------2688----------34.08----12.28---------0.985"
32.3-----------2726----------42.58----20.97---------0.883"
32.6-----------2738----------30.97----11.00---------1.184" I had very light ejector swipes on these cases
32.9-----------2755----------93.12----39.48---------0.690" w/out flyer and 1.360" w/the flyer. I'm not sure whether or not my chrony messed up or what, but I had one round read 2825fps. That could definitely count for the flyer anyways.

The BLC-2 really held its own w/these bullets. It had the highest fps and the groups were all right around an MOA, w/three loadings under an inch. This was the first time I had ever used any RE10x or H335. I thought I would be more impressed w/the H335 than I was. After reading several posts from members here who had not gotten good accuracy w/the Hornady 110 BTHP's I was expecting a lot worse accuracy. But, they weren't too bad. Nothing compared to the SMK's, however.

85gr Barnes TSX and RL7
29.3-----------2904-----------37.61----14.38---------1.682"
29.6-----------2923-----------38.11----15.32---------0.833"
29.9-----------2954-----------34.55----8.64-----------0.835"
30.2-----------2978-----------34.8------15.81---------0.848"
30.5-----------3024-----------43.57----16.39---------0.710" 4 of 5 had Ejector Swipes.
While I didn't get near the velocities of the SSA factory ammo, I did get much better groups. Here's a comparison from earlier in this thread w/the SSA 85gr TSX Factory Ammo. Temps were a little higher today, but not much:

SSA 85gr TSX Factory Ammo
Average: 3141, ES: 69, Group: 1.114"

I had also worked up loads w/115 SMK's w/RE10x and H335 and 110gr Accubonds w/H322 and RE10x. Unfortunately however, the clouds started messing w/the chrony and I don't believe most of the results I got were accurate. Which got me frustrated and that turned into some pretty lousy shooting. So in short, I don't trust the results from either the chrony or my groups w/these two loadings. Leave it for everything to go wrong once I got to the expensive bullets, of course. So I will be re-loading most of those and trying to get back out in the near future.

I was overgassed w/the suppressor, so I put all of the tungsten weights from an old H2 buffer I had laying around into the rifle buffer on this rifle. It's ejecting at about 2:45 now, so I think one of the flat wire springs is next on the list. I was hoping that by increasing the unlock time I might be able to squeeze a little more into the loadings, but that didn't seem to be the case. I'll see if changing out the buffer spring makes any difference in loadings or not.

ETA: interesting enough, there was a guy who came up and asked me about my setup. I discussed the 6.8 a little w/him and it turns out he had a bushy himself. There was another guy and girl shooting back as well and after he talked w/me he went back and talked to those people. The 2nd guy had asked him about my rifle and what it was. He had told him it was a 6.8. I over heard the 2nd guy telling him that he "only sticks w/the NATO calibers and that if the SHTF, I would be screwed." It made me chuckle a little, as obviously the 556 will be easier to find. But some people seem to act like Wal-Mart will still have it's doors open and they'll just be able go get 556 or 308 whenever it does happen. Besides, after the first 6 or so 556 & 308 AR's don't people get a little bored w/them? Is it not ok to expand your calibers a little? That's another nice thing about the suppressor as well. Everyone else is screaming 25 yrds away, and w/out the 'muffs you can hear everything from conversations to people parking on the street. I just that I'd share that little tid bit.

 

[snaz567]

Great information, thanks for your work. Just curious...What effect on velocity does the supressor have?

So far, I'd have to say little to none. Once in a while my HI will be a couple fps faster w/the suppressor mounted, but they seem to pretty much hold the same average in a group. If it had a tighter bore, maybe I'd get a small increase, but as it is, I see no change really.

I'm not sure whether it is because of tighter bore or not, as I didn't hardly see much of an increase w/the 6.8 and this is a .308 suppressor. But w/all of my 308 loads were between 125-150fps faster w/the suppressor mounted than w/out it. I wasn't expecting that.