From what I've seen, it looks very similar to the ARP TAC-6 with a rebated rim.

 

 

Longer case length. Compared to the TAC6 the bullet range of the Nosler will be less. It's all about loaded mag length. Case volume is less to based on where the shoulder is.

 

24 Nosler is more similar to a necked up 224 Valkyrie than it is to a 22 Nosler, aside from the rebated rim.

 

24 Nosler is essentially a necked up 224 Valkyrie

The shoulder is even further back than the Valkyrie so less powder capacity. The TAC 6 shoulder is further forward and the case is blown out so it has more capacity than the Valkyie and apx 2gr more than the 24 Nosler. The rebated rim and groove also steals powder capacity from the Noslers.

 

Do we think that the 24 nosler will be long lived? If it wasn't for the nosler branding/factory ammo it sounds like the tac 6 is a better round.

 

I don't believe it will be a big seller. It will be one of those fringe things. The lower capacity does it no favors just like the 224 Valkyrie. On my range time picking up brass I have picked up quite a bit of the Valkyrie and exactly zero of the 22 Nosler stuff BTW. I have both and a bunch of others so the 24 Nosler will probably not get much love from me. Even the VALK is a play toy for me as a hot 556 will handle light bullets just as well and I have far better wildcats that shoot the big bullets faster.

Greg

 

Yet another caliber!

Oh no, another caliber war! Let the fun commence.

 

Well its a commercially available 6mm bullet that can be fired in an AR-15, making it more legal in some states where a 5.56 caliber isn't legal to hunt big game with maybe their main commercial target?

Is there another 6mm commercially available 6mm bullet that can be shot out of an AR-15? After a while I stopped looking for another "alternative" AR-15 round once the 6.8 SPC became very well entrenched with various commercial ammo manufacturers.

 

I have never seen it advertised as brass or ammunition. No one that I know of has chambered up an AR for it. Of course as easy as it would be to make it would not be an issue but then you are back inteh land of custom handloading and there are far better choices to push those 6 MM pills like the 243 LBC or the 6X6.8. Based on case capacity a 6X45 would give it a run at 87 grains or less at mag length.

Greg

 

I was doing a little research today and stumbled across the new 24 nosler round. Does anyone have any real world experience with it yet? If I read it correctly it's a 243 variant of the 22 nosler.
*clip link*

Yes, let's talk about the 24 Nosler. I've been having wet dreams about a 6mm cartridge for the AR-15 platform for a year or more. While "old", I'm new to centerfire rifles and actually using them and hunting. I started hunting coyotes about the first of January 2018 when I started noticing my baby goats and sheep were coming up missing (and it's a for-profit endeavor, the goats and sheep). So I got pretty serious about centerfire rifles and basically started like a kid new to guns in general. That branched into hunting hogs and then bobcats. It's been a wide road trying to find one bullet/cartridge that I could use for all my intended targets. I've used 6.5G, .223R, .300BLK, and finally .224V. I had the thought that the 224 Valkyrie might meet my needs, shooting the 60gr stuff at coyotes at longer range and the 75-90gr stuff at hogs closer up. That was a cute idea but it didn't work well in the real world. I dreamed of my "one cartridge, one bullet". Looking at BC and weight range, I came to believe the 6mm/.243 caliber was where it was. But where the barrels were was the question.

There are a lot of 6mm/.243 caliber cartridges for the AR-15 platform and it's gets frustrating really quickly to pick one and then finding a barrel is a pain. Most searches for barrels ended with "non-stock" items with 6-8 week lead times. Some cartridges require fire-forming and special dies. It goes on. I finally decided to just try something and ordered a White Oak Armament 6mm WOA. It took over 3 months (and a phone call to them) for them to even get the barrel blank. I'm still waiting on that barrel. I have ordered 2 barrels from Columbia River's retail site but they've not returned two phone calls and I've not gotten an update (almost a week later) indicating that they've even shipped "in-stock" items. Bloody hell.

Yesterday I finally got off my butt an called AR-15 Performance. The site indicated that what I would probably want was out of stock so I'd not called before, even though I'd seen the site plenty of times. The guy there was very nice to talk with and helpful and told me he did have a couple of the barrels I wanted in stock. That's ordered now and I expect I'll see it before I see anything from either of the two other companies.

Now, to the 24 Nosler. As you can imagine, the preceding events of trying to find *something* to shoot 6mm/.243 bullets from the AR-15 platform has been very frustrating and I've left out a lot of the painful details. Further confusing matters is that the 6mmAR, .243 LBC, and the ARP Predator are, *apparently* the same cartridge and the same as the 6mm Grendel. And until I spoke with the guy at ARP, I thought they were all mythical. The 24 Nosler offers the glimmer of hope that maybe we'll get a standardized (SAAMI) cartridge for the 6mm/.243 that will fit (mag-length) the AR-15 platform.

However, the 24 Nosler has not appeared "on the shelf" anywhere that I could find. So far, the best I've found is that one of the reamer rental companies has a reamer for the 24 Nosler. This is after a year or more of it having it's SAAMI spec, I believe. One bit of reading I did about the 24 Nosler indicates that it has no parent case. If that is true, it would mean that there is no sourcing .xxx YYYY brass and re-sizing it. However, that (not having a "parent case") may be a function of the rebated rim. I shoot suppressed and use an adjustable gas block and I may be looking for trouble where it doesn't exist, but I fear the rebated rim may end up with a cartridge stripped from the magazine by the bolt or bolt carrier riding on the rebated case area and not the actual flat of the case head if (when) I monkey with my stuff and get it too close to the edge of functioning and it short strokes. However, if it shares dimensions, other than the case head, with another cartridge, it may be possible (*MAY*) to get a barrel for the 24 Nosler (along with the unicorns they stock, too) and then use a different bolt than the .223/5.56 bolt that the rebated rim fits. That is: use a 6.8 SPC or 6.5 Grendel or whatever can be sized for 24 Nosler but doesn't have the rebated rim, use the correct bolt for that cartridge, and be done. Maybe. Not a task to be taken lightly by anyone.

What has also been a real PITA with the wildcats in this caliber for the AR-15 platform has been the lack of load data, specifically in the bullet weight range that I'm looking for. It seems that "everyone" immediately jumps to the heaviest bullet they can find for "long range" shooting of targets and they whine, and moan, and speculate about 600-1000yd performance and BC. This means that most of the anecdotal load data I find is geared towards 95-108gr bullets when all I want is 70-80gr Nosler BT. Part of that problem is also that, as I referred to it, it's anecdotal, for lack of a better word; there's not been any laboratory testing of the loads that I'm aware of (or evident in the data provided). So when user "Fred" (just making up a name) says he's used xx.x grains of Yyyy powder under ZZ bullet and shot that great group, we don't know if he was hitting 36k PSI chamber pressure or if it was at proof pressure (or if he shot the great group pictured at all). The 24 Nosler solves both of these problems: they have load data from 55gr to 105gr, and we can trust that they've tested these loads in a laboratory environment. I tried some load data from the "net" once, from general users of the web. I am very much opposed to trying that again (no matter how many times and places you read that you can make reduced-power loads in the .223R with Blue Dot...read my lips, "DO NOT DO IT").

I'm very happy to have spoken with the guy at ARP (who was very kind to talk to me like I mattered even though I am nobody), and am looking forward to getting the barrel (and dies) from him in the 6mm Predator cartridge. However, I'm still wanting to see the 24 Nosler take off (actually come to market) for the reasons I've outlined above. I called Nosler yesterday but got the VM for one of the CS reps and didn't leave a message. I'm going to call them again in a bit when they open up to inquire about the 24 Nosler and the marketing of it.

In the meantime, here's an article about the 24 Nosler and wildcatting it to .224...a bit of an amusing read: (I'm too new here to post links: search for ".224-24 Nosler Wildcatting a non-existent standardized cartridge" with Google or similar)

--HC

 

I called Nosler. The guy I spoke with there basically said this about the 24 Nosler: they pushed it through SAAMI because folks were wildcatting it. Whatever that means. Nobody was making 6mm cartridges that close to that design that I've found, particularly with a rebated rim. Maybe he meant as in "folks wildcatting 6mm to the AR15 platform". Maybe he's not high enough on the food chain to know what the reason is. He further said that the spec is out there, the reamer makers (PTG got named) make the reamers, and if you want a barrel you need to talk to a barrel manufacturer. They (Nosler) are making the brass and that's it; they don't, per what he said, even chamber their own stuff in that cartridge, let alone make ammunition.

Well, hmm, apparently we 6mm AR-15 folks are second class citizens. I told him we need Nosler to push the cartridge like Federal pushed the Valkyrie. He showed some respect for the Federal marketing machine at that comment. Maybe we need a tougher, manlier name for the 6mm in AR-15 to get some street cred. Maybe the 6mm Baby Seal Killer, or 6mm Kitten Krusher. In the meantime we've got a standardized cartridge but no easy way to lay hands on the hardware to use it.

FWIW.

I like cats, actually. Baby seals, not so much. A few owe me money. 6mm BSK it is.

--HC

 

Basically you learned one thing. ARP is good people? I agree, and they might even send you a coozie if you order a barrel.

 

Yes, good people. And, according to the tracking info I received, I should get the barrel from them by Saturday which is faster than WOA or True Sporting Arms have gotten me the stuff I ordered from them. Wished I'd called them sooner (many months sooner). ARP, that is.

--HC

 

ARP Tac 6 is the only way to go!! Solid 1k rifle even in 18”. Even using Leverevolution powder.

 

A few years ago I called Nosler thinking I might put a bug in their ear and help get a 6mm into SAAMI. The young guy I talked to said they had a building full of engineers and didn't need any outside help. So now they offer a 6mm that has less powder capacity and velocity than ANY 6mm wildcat on the market. Their 22 Nosler is already a failure and this 24 Nosler may be before they make the first one.

The 6mmAR has been around since 2007 or 8 back when I called mine the Banshee, the .243LBC/6mm Predator and 6mm Grendel are all the same and proven. Nosler could have done it the easy way and had a winner...a building full of inganears.

 

This about sums it up. A day late and a dollar short!

 

I was doing a little research today and stumbled across the new 24 nosler round. Does anyone have any real world experience with it yet? If I read it correctly it's a 243 variant of the 22 nosler.
*clip link*

So, I found that one of the reamer rental places has reamers and gauges for the 24 Nosler. And I've got a lathe but am not a machinist by any stretch of the word. And I once watched a gunsmith chuck up one of my barrels once in a 4-jaw chuck and true it up. And I watched a video on YouTube showing how to chamber a barrel. And I'm just this kind of guy. So, I ordered a Shilen barrel blank, some AR-15 extensions, some tools, some brass, a set of dies, a range rod for .243 bores, and some other stuff and I'm going to attempt to chamber a barrel in 24 Nosler. All the stuff should be here by middle to end of next week. Once I monkey around with getting it to run true in the lathe I'll "order" the rental reamer and give it a go.

I'll let y'all know how it goes, sink or swim. Hopefully it'll work out and I'll end up with a functioning barrel and platform to test with.

But, with the reduced powder capacity and rebated rim design, I suspect that Constructor's comments about it dying like the 22 Nosler are accurate. With no parent case to size from, 24 Nosler brass, like Terminators, only comes from one place (Nosler) and it's not what I'd call "cheap" and there were a number of "out of stock" statuses where I looked. And if the 6mm Predator/.243 LBC/6mm Grendel/6mmAR cartridges fire the same projectiles at higher muzzle velocity and the brass can be readily formed from 6.5 Grendel cases then the 24 Nosler, with no serious industry support, seems destined for "also-ran" status.

--HC

 

So, about 6 weeks later and I'm back. I got it done. I learned a lot.

First, about the 24 Nosler: at first glance it seems similar to the 6x45 (a.k.a. 6mm-223). Major differences would be: 1) 24 Nosler needs 24 Nosler brass (it has no "parent case") whereas the 6x45 uses regular 223 Rem brass very simply necked up to a 0.243 neck (dies readily available for both), 2) 24 Nosler is a shorter, wider case which would seem to accommodate the heavier bullets (whereas the 6x45 uses standard 223 Rem brass and, being longer, was kind of pushing it with the 70gr Nosler BT I tried), 3) 24 Nosler cartridges do not seem to feed well from 6.5 Grendel mags (that's what I had with me that day) at least the ones made by E-Lander (probably would have worked well from the PRI 6.8 mags I have but I didn't test them because they weren't with me that day) whereas the 6x45 feeds from standard 223 Rem magazines just fine. The 6x45, which seems to be the closest "competitor" to the 24 Nosler is super sexy because it's nothing but a barrel swap (mags, bolt, headspace gauges, etc. all work...I've made a barrel in that, too, now). This post isn't to compare the 24 Nosler to other 6mm variations for the AR-15, though, so that's enough of that (I lie like a cheap rug).

I bought a cheap 6mm barrel blank from Numrich, rented a reamer from 4D (overall a good experience but, after several rentals now from them, they do not respond to phone calls which is a pill when you have a problem), bought a 0.243 range rod and 0.243 pilot bushings, and figured the rest out. I then chambered a barrel for a Savage model 12 FV in 6.5 BPC...wow, that's a lot easier than the AR barrel. Anyway...the barrel blank I got was 25 inches long so I just chambered one end, cut a profile of about 0.980" from the barrel extension end to a rifle-length gas block journal, short drilled the gas port (I didn't go all the way in case I decided to change gas-system length), and finished the barrel at full length just under 0.750" diameter. I loaded a bunch of cartridges right in the middle of the load data for the powder I chose (Benchmark) and all with the same bullets and seating depth. I then fired 3 rounds at each length as I cut the barrel down from 25" to 16", and recorded the data from my chronograph. I thought that might be of interest to the forum. I did NOT shoot any groups. I did not shoot groups because there are too many variables to account for in order for the results to have any value to the community.

This is what I loaded and shot, this is not a recommendation of a load: Use only data from reputable sources (like Nosler), just like I did.

24 Nosler
CCI #41
Benchmark 26.0gr
2.210" COL

25": 3,051 FPS avg (only 2 shots recorded...I hate my Caldwell chrono)
24": 3,046 FPS
23": 2,967 FPS
22": 2,937 FPS
21": 2,909 FPS
20": 2,859 FPS
19": 2,853 FPS
18": 2,820 FPS
17": 2,799 FPS
16": 2,762 FPS

I chose not to go any shorter than 16" because 1) I wanted the freedom to use it any time with any of my lowers (I only have one SBR lower), and 2) the velocity was getting low enough that the barrel wouldn't be useful for my purposes if I kept bleeding FPS. While I only tested one powder/bullet combination, this information should be useful as a general guideline for what to expect from this cartridge (24 Nosler) in different barrel lengths. Of course I was wearing hearing protection, but I could tell an appreciable difference in muzzle report, particularly in the shorter lengths. I have no way to quantify the difference, though.

For comparison, I loaded up 3 cartridges for the 6x45 which I tested the same day. I started off with a POS barrel from True Sporting Arms which was clearly a manufacturing defect sold as a barrel with only a chamber and extension threads cut (no profile, no gas port, no barrel extension). With that POS in-hand, I started practicing how to finish an AR-15 barrel and I drilled the gas port in the wrong location (you mean you can't trust information found on the Internet? NO! Get out of here!). After successfully finishing the 24 Nosler barrel (and getting accurate location information for gas ports), I decided to cut the chamber off the POS barrel and make it a 6x45. I then cut the barrel to length behind the mis-drilled gas port, leaving it at a finished length of about 11-something inches and put a gas port in it at carbine length. The three cartridges were loaded with the same powder and amount and had the same bullets as the 24 Nosler rounds tested. The major difference, besides length, was that the POS barrel seems to have 3 groove polygonal rifling whereas the Numrich blank has 6 groove "standard" rifling (some insist that the 3 groove polygonal rifling allows faster velocity due to reduced barrel friction). I shot one round into the dirt with the rifle held on the other side of a 1/2" thick sheet of steel (it had a gun-show special BCG and upper, both new, which cost me combined $150...not a lot of trust there). Once it shot a round and didn't blow up, I shot the next two rounds over the chrono and got an average of 2,515 FPS. Not bad for an 11 inch or so barrel. I mention that for velocity comparison of the charge/bullet combo...but they were different barrels/construction. FWIW.

There are too many 6mm wildcats for the AR-15 platform and some of them are the #$%# same, just named differently, so it is not possible to easily compare them. The 24 Nosler gets props for having SAAMI specs and bona fide load data from Nosler and having new brass (no forming required) available. If it didn't have that darned rebated rim, I'd be excited about it. For comparison, there is bona fide 6x45 load data from some sources (Hodgdon for one) and brass is readily available and easily "formed" ("formed" is a joke...just resize .223 Rem brass like you normally would but with a 6x45 die: it's so fast and easy that I didn't think anything had changed until I found that I could now seat a 6mm bullet in a .223 Rem case). Dies are available from Redding (I think both of mine are Redding) for either one. Maybe the 24 Nosler would be better for heavier bullets because there's more magazine length available for the bullet because the case is wider. Since neither seems to be available "off the shelf" from any supplier (barrels), you're kind of hosed on laying hands on either one of them in a timely fashion. The most readily-available 6mm variant for the AR-15 platform I found was AR Performance and their 6mm Predator. I had to call the guy to find out that they had them in-stock (the site said out of stock) but he was super nice to deal with and the barrel and dies showed up the same week and the thing shoots great and didn't cost a fortune. But then you have to have a 7.62x39 bolt (got one from Maxim), and you're into using Grendel brass...and E-Lander mags....and we're in the rabbit hole of 6mm wildcat variants for the AR-15.

I hope this helps some of you folks, it sure helped me. I had a great time learning how to chamber barrels...I'm making all kinds of stuff now...it's kind of hard to quit.

--HC

 

Do you have a water capacity on the fired Nosler cases? Would you say the HS gauges you used were dead on?

Thanks

Greg

 

Do you have a water capacity on the fired Nosler cases? Would you say the HS gauges you used were dead on?

Thanks

Greg

Sorry for the delay. I do not tend to the 'net stuff every day.

I didn't have distilled water handy so this is just with tap water (well water): 24 Nosler measured 32.44 grains flat across the case mouth (water was convex and I wiped it off with the side of a plastic straw and then it was flush/flat...I dunno). I did a 6x45 for the heck of it and it was 31.44 grains (same surface, flat).

HTH.

--HC

 

24 Nosler Dies

If anyone's interested in any of these dies, message me.