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Small rifle vs large rifle

723 Views 17 Replies 11 Participants Last post by  Blowout
I’ve been through a number of threads and the answer to this question seems somewhat elusive. I’ve noticed that some small rifle primer 6.8 Starline brass is available but also that ALL of the current data on Hodgdons reloading data center site seems to be for Large Rifle Primers. No other brass seems readily available.

The short and simple question is can I substitute available Small Rifle Primers for the Large Rifile and use the data? I have BR4 available, can probably get Win Small Rifle Mag or #41. I would expect to have to work up carefully. Perhaps there is a rule of thumb, I know this is common with several other popular calibers including 6.5 creedmoor and 45 ACP but it doesn’t make reloaders lives any easier.
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Not sure what the "correct" answer is, but I don't factor in the primer size when choosing load data for a particular caliber. If you practice safe and "common sense" reloading by starting low and working up, I see no reason you would have an issue.

HOWEVER, I would avoid the BR primers and look for standard or preferably small rifle magnum or NATO primers if you are loading for an AR. I've not had any issues using the data on this site (which there is plenty of) and working up to some very accurate loads in all my rifles.

Following to see what the general consensus is.

All the best!
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I suspect one's biggest consideration for primer choice is hardness of the cup and the weapon fired from. Since the AR uses a floating firing pin, the harder cup is preferred, given the gun's fore/aft movement during cycling. Whether large/small primer is probably less important and more of a supply/availability consideration for the shooter.
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I compared my SRP loads to LRP loads (identical bullet, powder selection and fired from the same gun. Only difference being the primer and case). The LRP tend to be .2gr lower than the SRP to achieve similar performance (velocity and accuracy).

Of course your mileage will vary due to several variations, however this info may provide some indication of what to expect.

I will note all my loads where developed using the ladder method as I find it is the best way to find a good load without losing any body or gun parts. The published load data from here and the books just provides me a starting point for my ladder but they always start low.
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Ive not seen any issues between the types of SRP. I have used CCI 41's, BR-4's, and 450 magnus with the same brass and charge of AA2200 without a noticeable difference. I only have a few pieces of LRP for 6.8. I just picked up LRP cause I load .308 now.
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Except for working up a "precision" load for a single rifle to use for long range varmints or informal competition I don't worry about difference between small and large primers. My bulk training loads and multi-rifle hunting loads pull a big bag or several boxes of prepped brass, refer to my data for bullet using and go to work. Someone mention match primers, most manufacturers including CCI and Federal say the only difference between standard primers and match primers are match primers go through one extra inspection step. Considering standard primers go through a half dozen inspections one extra step doesn't mean much, many I know (including David Tubb/Superior Shooting Systems) are using Russian primers in precision ammo.

According to Federal the only difference in the regular Federal primers and the match primers were an extra visual inspection.
Many manufacturers the difference between military and magnum primers is the box. Unless I have a "pet load" that is well above any published chart data (here I use same primers used for load development) any loads that are in the real of published data I don't care if goes in a large primer or small primer case or what type primer I stick in it. Given the choice (don't have his with 6.8) most of my precision loads go in Berdan cases and use Russian made Berdan primers.

In general, there is no significant advantage to using match primers rather than standard primers. While primer manufacturers often say their match-grade primers have additional quality control checks, most shooters are not able to see any advantage, but there are differences in how all primers work.

The CCI #41 is ballistically equivalent to the CCI 450 small rifle magnum primer
There will be no functional difference between standard and magnum primers. Winchester primers are labeled, "For standard or magnum loads"
Spend about an hour with Google and dig into both manufacturer sites and discussion forums of reloading and precision shooting sites will find some claim small differences but nt enough to really worry over. Federal claimed "Federal Match primers are made by employees who've shown a greater ability consistently apply the priming compound" but I cannot find any such reference on their website in recent years. Best I can tell are magnum and military primers both have thicker cups and some claim a bit more priming compound and are basically the same thing.

In running loads across the chronograph I do;t see enough difference between standard, match and military primers with all other elements being equal that exceed standard deviation of using the same primer. If your running up to max load or beyond I would always be careful even using the same brand and type primers as there can be more differences between Brand X standards lot made a couple years later as their equipment or materials may have slight variance. That said still will be within their "allowable tolerance". Have seen a lot of detailed testing of primers and for most ammo loading purposes the primer used makes no difference.

If your building precision loads for 1,000 yard benchrest or 500 yard prairie dogs you need to remove evey bit of tolerance stack possible. I find most of that is done by properly prepping and matching cases and again properly prepping and matching projectiles. If you do not cut every primer pocket to same depth using a cutter then make sure all flash holes are centered, same size and deburred you will se much more variation from the actual primer pocket than the primer stuffed in it. Same with bullets, trim, tip and weight matched projectiles will remove more variance than using a different primer.

My precision loads spend way more time prepping cases and truing bullets than worry about primers. Just separate your large primer and small primer brass and then after loading box the smalls together and large together and let fly. May as well jump into the debate on is powder volume or weight more important. Many believe measuring by volume is more precise than weight of powder charges. I find the type powder some shoot better if measured by volume and others shoot better if measured by weight but at most ranges and in most rifles the difference wont be seen. A $800 single point cut rifled barrel on a precision build being used at 1,000 or more yards then you may find one primer exhibits better consistency but at 100 yards from a $250 barrel the primer is not going to show much variation.
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Amazing info, peeps! Exactly what I was hoping for to give a sense of how and where to get started. I think I’ll pick up some of the SRP brass and get rolling shortly.

I’m looking to load a reasonably accurate 5.56 replacement and possibly another 1.5 MOA or better one to stretch out to 300. The factory ammo situation is unfortunate but I think that will come back, albeit higher priced than the salad days, looks to me like a general switchover to LRP everywhere might be gumming the works a bit.
Amazing info, peeps! Exactly what I was hoping for to give a sense of how and where to get started. I think I’ll pick up some of the SRP brass and get rolling shortly.

I’m looking to load a reasonably accurate 5.56 replacement and possibly another 1.5 MOA or better one to stretch out to 300. The factory ammo situation is unfortunate but I think that will come back, albeit higher priced than the salad days, looks to me like a general switchover to LRP everywhere might be gumming the works a bit.
Hornady Frontier it pretty accurate and loaded pretty hot
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Funny that you mention that. I’ve been working on a 500 case of Frontier in 5.56 with the Hornady 75 grain BTHP and love it. Quite accurate!

I’ll keep an eye out for Frontier 6.8 in the usual places. Any best bullet weights to look for?
I did manage to pick up some Hornady 110 BTHP at powder valley on sale for what looks like a good price. Seems like 23.65 cents/round is better than most these days.

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That's actually not bad.
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That 110gr is one of my favorite bullets. I use it and AA2200 with good results in my 16” Noveske barrel.
Pretty good price as well.
I compared my SRP loads to LRP loads (identical bullet, powder selection and fired from the same gun. Only difference being the primer and case). The LRP tend to be .2gr lower than the SRP to achieve similar performance (velocity and accuracy).

Of course your mileage will vary due to several variations, however this info may provide some indication of what to expect.

I will note all my loads where developed using the ladder method as I find it is the best way to find a good load without losing any body or gun parts. The published load data from here and the books just provides me a starting point for my ladder but they always start low.
I suspected a LRP would increase velocities over SRP, but hadn't read anything that substantiated this... until your post. Thank you for sharing!
This is interesting data. I am curious why the 6.8 is usually SRP. Why does Lapua use SRP for their Palma brass? Why is there seeming consensus among those that are interested in maximizing the performance of the 308 Win that SRP is a helpful factor when coupled with magnum primers.

Here is an example by "nralifer" the OP of the Long Range Hunting thread 'Improving the 308 Win' in post 2732832:

"With SRP brass, LVR powder, PT&G 308win bore rider chamber and a 26” or 24” 1:10 twist barrel you can safely propel the 175gr 308BD2 to 2800-2850 fps. No magnum cartridge needed. Primer I use is the CCI450. COAL =2.950-2.960”. 30-06 length action is not needed but the round seems to feed a little easier in the longer action."
I use CCI 41 small and CCI 34 large. I've loaded literally thousands af 6.8 SPC with various powders and bullets for 6 barrels From 10.5" to 20". My experience is all data and scope settings were interchangeable for me with these primers. Used starline small and I think rp large brass. Hope this helps.
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Natchez has CCI 450 primers on hand which seem well recommended. Ordered some a few days ago so I should be set to get started, looks like it’s still in stock

I suspected a LRP would increase velocities over SRP, but hadn't read anything that substantiated this... until your post. Thank you for sharing!
This is CCI 41 and Remington #9-1/2. Perhaps the comparison may show a LRP increase if both primers are within the same family.

Would be interesting to see this comparison, but don't see myself doing it as I don't shoot LRP that much and don't stock components for it.
This is CCI 41 and Remington #9-1/2. Perhaps the comparison may show a LRP increase if both primers are within the same family.

Would be interesting to see this comparison, but don't see myself doing it as I don't shoot LRP that much and don't stock components for it.
I suspect the LRP would have more primer compound than the SRP based on the size alone there by increasing brisance and velocity somewhat, but side by side testing would be the only way to be sure.

The brisance of the SRP definitely looks less than the LRP in these pictures:
Primer Flash Test Photos.
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