I hope that boy has evolved beyond knucklehead status concerning the 6.8, compared to when he was first exposed to it. I wanted to give him a swift kick in the rear after reading his nonsense.

 

That would make for a potent subsonic round.

 

FYI, Winchester has introduced another straight wall cartridge, the .450 Legend, suited for AR-15s and other action types. It headspaces on the case mouth. Rim diameter is .422", same as our 6.8 SPC, thus rifles chambered for it will have bolts suited for replacement barrels chambered in 6.8 SPC. Same goes shell holders. So, if you always wanted a bolt action 6.8, the gun world just became a little more accommodating.

The .450 Legend is interesting in its own right, see the SAAMI chart below. While the case rim is .422", it is rebated behind a .440" case head. Note the gradual taper to .427" at the case mouth, the very short .4015" diameter by .010" long throat, behind a 1 degree-30 minute leade down to the barrel's .390" bore. I guess as long as you keep your brass trimmed to just the right length, headspace should not be a problem. Personally, I prefer cartridges that headspace on rims, belts or shoulders, no matter how skimpy. - CW

https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/Public-Introduction-400-Legend-2023-01-30.pdf

 

FYI, Winchester has introduced another straight wall cartridge, the .450 Legend, suited for AR-15s and other action types. It headspaces on the case mouth. Rim diameter is .422", same as our 6.8 SPC, thus rifles chambered for it will have bolts suited for replacement barrels chambered in 6.8 SPC. Same goes shell holders. So, if you always wanted a bolt action 6.8, the gun world just became a little more accommodating.

The .450 Legend is interesting in its own right, see the SAAMI chart below. While the case rim is .422", it is rebated behind a .440" case head. Note the gradual taper to .427" at the case mouth, the very short .4015" diameter by .010" long throat, behind a 1 degree-30 minute leade down to the barrel's .390" bore. I guess as long as you keep your brass trimmed to just the right length, headspace should not be a problem. Personally, I prefer cartridges that headspace on rims, belts or shoulders, no matter how skimpy. - CW

https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/Public-Introduction-400-Legend-2023-01-30.pdf

Those drawings say 400 legend are there two new cartridges? 400 and 450?

 

Ok @Nincomp @chasw and @BTdriver the 400L threads have been merged and put in the Alternative Caliber subforum.

 

Savage announced rifles in May, still nothing. So yeah it seems DOA. Too bad really, I was looking forward to maybe getting one.

 

Maybe its more 6.8 SPC than you think and the folks that screwed the pooch on its final development and roll out now have jobs at Winchester 🤣🤣🤣
Just kidding and I hope it gets off the ground!
J

 

Saw a video on YT (Ron Spomer Outdoors) reviewing the new 400 Legend. He mentioned that it is based off the 6.8 SPC. Is this going to have a positive or negative effect on 6.8 brass availability? Thoughts?

I'm asking because when the 300BLK came out, 221 Fireball brass was unobtanium for some time after.

 

it will depend on popularity. In essence its turning 6.8 brass into a .40/10mm straight wall cartridge. All 3 cartridges come from .30 Remington brass. I tried once to cut the shoulder of 6.8 brass to make 10mm brass, but the wall is thicker. You would need to ream it out slightly to seat a bullet.

 

Test barrel is 20 inches. At the bottom under chart.

 

Hopefully Hornady will ramp up the production of 200gr. XTP bullets again as this bullet is an ass kicker in my 10mm!

 

The 400L uses a 0.422" diameter bolt like the 6.8 SPC, but case is a little larger diameter ( 0.44" vs 0.4207"). It also only runs at 45,000 psi and the case length is 1.65". It IS a member of the 30-30/ .30Rem/69 SPC family, but it is the short chubby uncle that is just a little off.

 

Wondering if one reason Winchester went the 20% lower psi is for less sticky casses? Also, couldn’t they have used a 7.62x39 case for less rebated rim, except it may have had too much bolt thrust?

 

I'm guessing that is why they have the threshold lower. Not sure why that they would go rebated rim vs the x39 case head. The only thing that I can think of is that the x39 case head is really not ideal for the AR platform. But, at 45k psi, I would think that it might be alright. Since the Grendel's max psi is around 52k psi.

 

This cartridge is puzzling. It was shown in bolt guns for the intro video. My guess about the case is to play up its relation to the well known 30-30 and to be absolutely certain that there would be no bolt problems. It depends on how much say the Marketing Department had. The lower pressure probably has something to do with available bullets, too, but it is also possible that it is engineered around some particular rifles with marginal bolt strength. They might even be thinking of some lever actions like the Marlin 336 that could use the rimless 35 Rem.

 

Well it seems it may be close for forming a 6mm cat. The once or twice fired case might be 1.67, and the TAC 6 is 1.57, while the ARC 6 is 1.47.

What shoulder angle? Just curious would it still feed at say 1.37? How short would it actually be after forming? How much bolt thrust would be reasonable? Max pressure?

 

The case is slightly shorter than a 6.8. For the TAC6 we trim to 1.57ish and then resize (and final trim/chamfer/debur). So I don't see why you couldn't.

I think in one of the oth threads the pressure was listed at 45k or something.

I probably need to merge the threads.

 

I'm thinking it's probably available bullets is the reason for the low pressure spec.

I hope it could be done. Probably be a PITA. Have to be in stages I'd guess. It's beyond my knowledge or skill currently, but I sure like the idea of a ARC capacity cartridge able to take SPC pressure and maybe squeeze more speed from it than the ARC.

 

I'm thinking it's probably available bullets is the reason for the low pressure spec.

I hope it could be done. Probably be a PITA. Have to be in stages I'd guess. It's beyond my knowledge or skill currently, but I sure like the idea of a ARC capacity cartridge able to take SPC pressure and maybe squeeze more speed from it than the ARC.

That'll likely be the best thing for AR15 wildcat tinkerers to come from this 400L introduction.

 

Would like to see some wildcats off this just for fun

 

I see that ammo is available from numerous sources, so I haven't given up hope yet.

edited to add: I checked Savage, Ruger and Winchester but didn't see anything listed. I am beginning to wonder if something bad was discovered during initial testing.

 

I see that ammo is available from numerous sources, so I haven't given up hope yet.

Even got a 20% rebate till the end of the month.

Winchester Power Point 400 Legend 215gr Soft Point 2250 FPS 2416 FT/Lb 20/box

Winchester Power Point 400 Legend 215gr Soft Point 2250 FPS 2416 FT/Lb 20/box In Stock!

www.aeammo.com

 

It really is a legend.

 

"Legend" is OK. Let's just hope that it just doesn't turn out to be a MYTH!

 

Am really interested in the 400 for lobbing subsonic cast. Think brass is going to be more reasonable, easier to find than 458 SOCOM once the hunters start jumping aboard. Having an assortment of bullet molds from 300 to 400 grains made would be easy and likely less abusive on my aging spine than the 500, 550 and 600 grain cast am using in 458 and still drop hogs with authority.

 

Does the world need another 6mm wildcat??? Following the big covid/Biden price increases and shortages I dug out my 6mm×45s which except for knowing we're in the back of a vault somewhere had not seen in years. Also was having more health issues including spine and remembered I had a bunch of 6mm cast gas check boolits somewhere. Found three plastic screw top cans filled with 87 grain boolits just needing gas checks and sized/lubed. Instead I coated them in one of the new "high speed/low drag" boolit coatings commonly get up to 2,700 fps in my 7.62×51 battle rifles then used a swage die to seat the checks like they are "glued and nailed" plus unifomed them as precise as a jacketed bullet then fell back in love with my super efficient low powder consuming poodle shooters lobbing light cast boolits instead of the 500 and 550 grain boolits normally run in 458 SOCOMs.

While dug them out found a pair of 6mm wildcats had almost forgot but didn't want to run throat burning ultra velocity powder hogs. Then discovered I could buy 24 Nosler projectiles and brass cheap no matter how expensive everything else reloading cost. Every week was getting emails about deals on something 24 Nosler including primed cases when finding small rifle primers was difficult much less paying $100 per $1,000 for CCI military primers and after almost a year of buying 24 Nosler cosmetic blem bullets and brass then found some deals in loaded ammo discovered I had 2,400 rounds of factory ammo, almost 10,000 cases of which about 2,500 were primed plus about 20,000 projectiles and didn't own a single 24 Nosler barrel much less a rifle. Have three barrels to build when feel good enough to get back in my shop then once I run some of the commercial across chronograph after breaking them in will be going into load development.

This last panic/shortage was odd as entire time was able to buy 40 Smith pistol ammo cheap. It's dropped even more and one vendor has 50 round boxes for $13.99 and 1,000 round cans of loose name brand ammo (they do a lot of LEO trade in and some boxes were so mangled they said just dumped them in cans. Been paying $299 for 1,000 round cans and $179 for 500 round cans of FMJs which is cheaper than could reload them a year ago.There were other rounds that are falling in popularity I loaded up on but now 5.56 is reasonable again and 6.8 is down to 80¢ per round for S&B and American Gunner which when drops to 70¢ going to start buying again slowly as watch to see how far down it goes.

 

From the ballistics I saw, it's a 215gr bullet at 2250fps. Unknown barrels length.

 

He seems to like it.

 

Maybe neck it down to a 6mm?

Should be able to go with 55K of pressure like a 6.8, no?

 

Not sure. Since it is a rebated rim, bolt thrust would be calculated on the major diameter of the case.

 

Giantmike: Yes there are two cartridges, the new .400 Legend by Winchester and the rather different shaped .450 Bushmaster introduced several years ago by Hornady. Personally, I prefer the 6.8 SPC over either of those fat little, short range rounds. - CW

 

I am intrigued by the 400L case. More capacity and stronger bolts. I'm thinking 6mm is a good candidate.