Question about Stag upper.
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New Stags are SPC II, and 1:11 which is a good combination.
For a few years before they were SPC II and 1:10 which works okay, but not as good pressure wise as the new 1:11's are.
Several years ago, Stag like others were using the original SAAMI chamber which was too restrictive, which led the industry to move towards the SPC II and DMR chambers.
For a few years before they were SPC II and 1:10 which works okay, but not as good pressure wise as the new 1:11's are.
Several years ago, Stag like others were using the original SAAMI chamber which was too restrictive, which led the industry to move towards the SPC II and DMR chambers.
While they have some good components I can no longer recommend STAGs as a economical base upper to purchase until they correct the fact they do not use M4 feed ramps on the upper or barrel extension. There are numerous feeding issues being reported with now other round not just the Seirra HPs While it is not too technically difficult to cut ramps in your self it is considered a mandatory spec and STAG is well aware of it. This includes ALL their 6.8 uppers or guns.
They have other issues but while less than ideal they are livable such as carbine gas, none standard muzzle threading staking etc... The ramps is absolutely NOT. It directly effects the round to round reliability of the gun and can actually create a unsafe issue. If a hot round had its bullet jammed deep into the case it could create enough pressure to rupture a case which can cause bodily injuries.
If you buy one be immediately prepared to send it out or cut the feed ramps in for your self. While you are at it stake the carrier key properly
Actually here is the STAG buyers prep sheet to make the STAG useable:
* Cut in M4 ramps in reciever and barrel extension
* Stake carrier key side.
* Hand cycle gun 500 min 1K idea
* If complete gun or you are using your own, with a carbine stock: replace buffer and spring with a H possibly a H2 and a SSS flat wire spring
Doing those things will bring the STAG to an adequate level of reliability.
They have other issues but while less than ideal they are livable such as carbine gas, none standard muzzle threading staking etc... The ramps is absolutely NOT. It directly effects the round to round reliability of the gun and can actually create a unsafe issue. If a hot round had its bullet jammed deep into the case it could create enough pressure to rupture a case which can cause bodily injuries.
If you buy one be immediately prepared to send it out or cut the feed ramps in for your self. While you are at it stake the carrier key properly
Actually here is the STAG buyers prep sheet to make the STAG useable:
* Cut in M4 ramps in reciever and barrel extension
* Stake carrier key side.
* Hand cycle gun 500 min 1K idea
* If complete gun or you are using your own, with a carbine stock: replace buffer and spring with a H possibly a H2 and a SSS flat wire spring
Doing those things will bring the STAG to an adequate level of reliability.
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JWS, I have the Stag 5 in left hand and it has the Spec II chamber. I agree with Tim's suggestions to make it more reliable. Mine does not feed the 90 gr. Sierra bullets well and it will cause bullet setback when the nose gets jammed into the receiver/barrel extension juncture. Also the gas key is not staked properly. Stag is a good company though and hopefully they will make the changes to stay competitive. In general my rifle has been reliable but I do want to send it out to get the key staked and have ramps cut. Good luck.
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Who could I send mine to that will do a professional job cutting the M4 ramps?
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ADCO $15MiltonTiger said:
Ok thanks for the stake carrier key info.
Now to another noob question: I know the 6.8 uses a different bolt, but is it the same size?
I.e. will this MOACKS tool work with both a 5.56 bolt and a 6.8 bolt?
http://www.m-guns.com/tool_new.php?product=pmoacks
Now to another noob question: I know the 6.8 uses a different bolt, but is it the same size?
I.e. will this MOACKS tool work with both a 5.56 bolt and a 6.8 bolt?
http://www.m-guns.com/tool_new.php?product=pmoacks
Checked my Stag 6.8, and the bolt carrier key is staked like this:
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So are we saying that Stag 1) doesn't stake, or 2) that this kind of staking is inferior and should be redone?
Also I checked my post-ban Bushie 5.56mm from circum-2000, it doesn't have M4 feed ramps either. What if someone made the argument that there are a heckuva lotta AR-15s out there without M4 feed ramps that are doing just fine and not suffering malfunctions and kabooms? Should I feel the need to have M4 feed ramps cut in my Bushie 5.56mm, if I haven't had any problems (of course, I have only used FMJ in it)?
So are we saying that Stag 1) doesn't stake, or 2) that this kind of staking is inferior and should be redone?
Also I checked my post-ban Bushie 5.56mm from circum-2000, it doesn't have M4 feed ramps either. What if someone made the argument that there are a heckuva lotta AR-15s out there without M4 feed ramps that are doing just fine and not suffering malfunctions and kabooms? Should I feel the need to have M4 feed ramps cut in my Bushie 5.56mm, if I haven't had any problems (of course, I have only used FMJ in it)?
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Staking as you have pictured does not hold as it puts no tension at all on the screw. If you think about the process and where force needs to be to stop a screw from moving it is very apparent why the stake they do doesn't work. There is a very good reason why the Mil requires it a specific way. I also put a top counter stake which is on the screw head itself right next to the side stake so if the screw where to try to move the top stake is locked into the side stake. If you do a search on here with my name and staking you should find a group of pictures of staking with what I am talking about. Stag, RRA DO NOT properly stake the keys. Bushmaster is hit or miss but mostly miss. Armalite is about 50/50 on getting it right. Colt almost 100% Noveske the same. As far as I know other than maybe a few small custom shops the Xtreme is the only one done with both side and top counter stake and other such as the actual screws we use how we prep the carrier and other things that make ours have much greater durability.
One thing about an AR is anyone with just some reading and a torque wrench and vise can throw one together and it will likely work for range use and be reasonably accurate (1.5-3 moa) depending on the quality of barrel used but its night and day dif to building one that will have max durability and max perf when pushed hard. It takes actual experience and working with them for years and as important actually being willing to take the extra time and care to do it correctly. That is the dif in the various uppers that are out that may seem to use similar parts. It is the little things that make the dif and it takes more then just reading about it. This is especially true when it comes to tuning the gas system. The AR is an amazing gun as it can be extremely straight forward and basic yet to get the most out of it its quite complex. This is why companies like AR15Performance, Noveske, MSTN, GAP are the "go to" of the customs when professionals that have to have ARs that function always and want the maximum in perf possible with harsh use. It is why of for the main big manf its COLT and FN as well if they were commercially.
One thing about an AR is anyone with just some reading and a torque wrench and vise can throw one together and it will likely work for range use and be reasonably accurate (1.5-3 moa) depending on the quality of barrel used but its night and day dif to building one that will have max durability and max perf when pushed hard. It takes actual experience and working with them for years and as important actually being willing to take the extra time and care to do it correctly. That is the dif in the various uppers that are out that may seem to use similar parts. It is the little things that make the dif and it takes more then just reading about it. This is especially true when it comes to tuning the gas system. The AR is an amazing gun as it can be extremely straight forward and basic yet to get the most out of it its quite complex. This is why companies like AR15Performance, Noveske, MSTN, GAP are the "go to" of the customs when professionals that have to have ARs that function always and want the maximum in perf possible with harsh use. It is why of for the main big manf its COLT and FN as well if they were commercially.
Tim, I appreciate the information.
2 month ago, I didn't know what m4 feed ramps were, and yesterday I didn't know what staking a bolt carrier key was.
So, if I get M4 feed ramps cut, is there any recommendation on treating/protecting the aluminum cuts in the receiver?
2 month ago, I didn't know what m4 feed ramps were, and yesterday I didn't know what staking a bolt carrier key was.
So, if I get M4 feed ramps cut, is there any recommendation on treating/protecting the aluminum cuts in the receiver?
They will be fine. You do not need to protect them. Polish them up to a mirror finish and that is all that is needed. If you really wanted to I guess you could hit them with some type of black coating. Jsut make sure its thin and slick. I prefer to cut all of my own M4 ramps as opposed to factory and I have never covered them and no issues to date so have many others. It is fairly normal thing done.
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