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Discussion Starter #1
You know Remington is building a 30RAR? It is a 450 bushmaster necked down to 30 cal. they say it will push a 125gr bullet to 2800 fps from a 22" barrel. I think a 22" 6.8 will push a 120gr Barnes pretty lose to that.
If someone were to bring out a factory loaded 6.5 that matched the velocities of the 260 Remington but in a AR15 platform could it be a successful cartridge? What about a .338 that would push a 200gr bullet to 2600fps from a 20" barrel?
Just thinking the 6.5 could be a tactical cartridge as well as a flat shooter for deer or antelope, the .338 could be for heavier deer, bear, elk or hog slammin.
Please take a minute and tell me what you think, with the democrats in control making the AR a hunting rifle may be a good idea, If we show it is commonly used for hunting then it may be more difficult to ban or control.
Which caliber makes more sense or would both make it?
 

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6.5 for the AR is already out there, no? The Grendel advertises 123gr @ 2565fps out of a 19.5" barrel, and 2620fps out of a 24" barrel.

While I'm all for new calibers to keep the AR mainstream, I don't know if the extra ~200fps would matter to most people.

Somebody else had your idea about .338 in an AR, but it never made it to large-scale factory loading. You can buy it, but from it looks like one source. He also didn't get his going near as fast as you're talking. He claims 180gr @ 1800fps.

http://www.reedsammo.com/Page4.html

.338 Spectre

This is also designed for the AR-15 action. The .338 Spectre cartridge is based on the Starline 10 mm Magnum case (and retains that headstamp) which has the same diameter as the 6.8 x 43 Rem SPC, so requires the use of dedicated magazines. It may therefore be regarded as a shorter, necked-out version of the .30 HRT. Case length is 31.5 mm, rim diameter 10.6 mm, body diameter 10.8 mm, neck diam 9.2 mm.

Bullet choice is wide, ranging from 160 grain (10.4g) Barnes X Spitzers, through 180 grain (11.7g) BST to 300 grain (19.4g) HPBT Match King rifle bullets. Overall loaded length is similar to the ubiquitous 7.62 x 39 M43 and .223 Remington. Furthermore, it allows the user to employ existing suppressors for the 9 mm without modification, providing enhanced tactical firepower.

The standard .223 lower receiver for the AR-15 can be used without modification, and the rifle will function in both semi and full automatic modes. In addition to the AR-15 weapons platform, several other types of firearms can be made to accept this cartridge, including the Mini-14, T/C Encore and various bolt and pump action rifles. The magazine for the AK-74SU “Krinkov” will accept the .338 Spectre cartridge, and Teppo Jutsu are working on the first prototype rifle in this cartridge.

Ballistic performance is comparable to the .357 Herrett, .357 Maximum or .35 Remington or even the 180 grain load for the .44 Magnum. In the 16" (406 mm) barrel carbine, the .338 Spectre will launch the 180-grain BST at 1,800 fps. By loading the 225-grain Hornady Spire Point bullet at subsonic velocities for suppressed application, the muzzle energy approaches 540 foot-pounds, rivaling the high velocity 115 grain (7.45g) load for the 9mm Parabellum. 6.5mm sabot loadings are also being investigated.

Typical loads (bullet weight/muzzle velocity) are:
160 gr. (10.4g) 1,800 fps (550 m/s)
180 gr. (11.7g) 1,800 fps (550 m/s)
225 gr. (14.6g) 1,040 fps (317 m/s)
300 gr. (19.4g) 1,040 fps (317 m/s)
edit: I just read my post and it really sounds like I'm being a kill-joy. That's not my intention at all. Like the Grendel, with a better business plan, a wildcatter could probably bring some of these obscure AR calibers back from the brink.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Big difference from the grendel at 2565fps and the 6.5ARSM at 2956fps. That the difference between a 300 yd cartridge and a 1000 yd cartridge. I know the grendel guys will be along in a minute to tell us how great it is but if I was competing I would not use the Grendel to do so at more than 300yds. just like the PPCs.
And the 338 specter Vs the .338ARSM is even more 1800fps vs 2600fps.
200fps is the difference between a standard cartridge and a magnum and most think that's a worthy improvement.
 

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If you can get either of those up to where you want to I would want one of each :D

a 338 doing that out of an AR would be sweet, I personally see more room for improvement in the larger calibers that fit into the AR then in the smaller ones, If we could get a big bore like the socom up and not have ammo cost a fortune I would go for that in a heart beat.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
marinesg1012 said:
If you can get either of those up to where you want to I would want one of each :D

a 338 doing that out of an AR would be sweet, I personally see more room for improvement in the larger calibers that fit into the AR then in the smaller ones, If we could get a big bore like the socom up and not have ammo cost a fortune I would go for that in a heart beat.
SSA is more valuable to the gun industry than you would ever believe, Can you call up Winchester or Remington and ask to make a certain load and expect results? nope
As I said before this is the first time in history an ammo manufacturer and a bunch of performance enthusiast has forced the gun industry to change in order to use the ammo.
SSA is reachable, Team up a ammo manufacturer and an aggressive firearm manufacturer and watch what happens.

We talked about a 458 but with the bullets available it is a short range caliber <250, The 338 has almost as much energy and will reach out to 500 if needed so it was a better all around caliber. The 6.5 is a true long range caliber good to a 1000yds.
Both of these have already been tested the only thing I need to work on is 1/2 moa accuracy from both.
First we should get the 6.8 over the hurdle then work on the rest but it's looking good.
 

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I wish SSA would load the 458 SOCOM.
 

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H, both of these potential factory chamberings make me happy in the pants. Either one is capable of kill shots at or beyond my comfort zone. The variety of existant bullets for both are there already as well for reloading, now we just need to have art choose which one he wants to load for those of us who dont reload(yet) :D

outside of competition or true sniping a 1km rifle doesnt mean a whole lot to 95% of the public except as a bragging point. And since I already have a 6.8 for medium game 300m and nearer I personally would be more inclined to purchase the .338 for bigger game.
 

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if you build them I will buy them and then bug tim on how to reload them :D
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Cold said:
I wish SSA would load the 458 SOCOM.
Tooling is apx $14000 so if you can make enough profit from ammo sales to cover that 14k then you could have Art load it IF he has time. That just comes from inquiring about 500 Jeffery brass a few years ago.
he did make .499 LWRC brass so that can't be to far away.
 

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Guys to put these proposed cartridges in proper perspective for you:

The .338 offering would have 1750 FPS and 1600 lbs at 500 yard is super sonic to 1Kwith that blunt hunting bullet.
It is the exactly ballistic match to the .338 Federal but with a shorter barrel !!!!! It has the same powder capacity in a more efficient cartridge shape. Or if you want flat and fast the 185 TSX @ say 2900fps!!!
The big long .338 Fed has to be shot out of a AR-10 and is considered a great Elk round or anything else int he USA for that matter. Same bullets and weights same velocities but from a 2"-4" shorter barrel in the .smaller AR-15 platform then the .338 Fed Meaning only one lower and set of mags.. They all wok with the 6.8 mags BTW.


The 6.5 version would have the same performance and vel as the .260, 6.5 Creedmore etc..The 6.5 Grendel is not even in the same ball park as these. Comparing the Grendel holding what 35 gr of H2O and has a PSI max of 52K PSI to the ARSM with 57 gr and 65K PSI max it not even close. Its night and day from a velocity and terminal performance aspect..22 LR vs .222 Rem

Also both of these are far more efficient as the barrels get shorter then there ballistic equivalents.

And remember they both with AR-15 lowers and mags and as such will be lighter and smaller then a AR-10.

With the 6.5 imagine taking the barrel length out to 24" and up for bench or stand shooting with it. You are talking about a solid 1K shooter in the competition sense not just will it make it there is a rainbow trajectory

Without a doubt one of the .338s is coming to my house no matter what happens. :mrgreen: I would love to get the heaviest flat nosed .338 they make and thump the biggest nastiest boar I can find with it. I know the 215 would be best to and is already more then enough but man to see what a Woodleigh SN WeldCore 58 300 grainer would do at 2300 at 50 yards would be a sight for sure :twisted: .Seeing a hole I could put my foot in on the exit hole hehehe now that woudl be cool. I would all that a thumper. :wink:
 

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I would have to agree with you there tim, I would really like one of those 338 :D
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I have a new.338 12 twist 3 groove but , no time to build it.
 

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Pretty amazing!

I take it these would be single stacked in a 68 mag ala 458SOCOM single stacked in a 556 mag?
mag capacity would go down to around 10.

When you consider the power of these ( 338Fed+ )
and their intended application of hunting or long range sniping,
the "limited" mag capacity is not really a problem.

Hell, my Win M70 30-06 only holds 4!

Also, how do you fit these into an AR bolt face?
The rim diameter must be halfway through the lugs.

 

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Discussion Starter #14
Clint said:
Pretty amazing!

I take it these would be single stacked in a 68 mag ala 458SOCOM single stacked in a 556 mag?
mag capacity would go down to around 10.

When you consider the power of these ( 338Fed+ )
and their intended application of hunting or long range sniping,
the "limited" mag capacity is not really a problem.

Hell, my Win M70 30-06 only holds 4!

Also, how do you fit these into an AR bolt face?
The rim diameter must be halfway through the lugs.I have NO limitations :wink: ARP12

 

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I want to see this new upper :D
 

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C, can you share any more ARP12 project details
such as goals and improvements or retained features vs DI-AR ?
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Clint said:
C, can you share any more ARP12 project details
such as goals and improvements or retained features vs DI-AR ?
I can't say much yet, I hope to have a prototype at SHOT if I have a booth to park at.
 

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the SHOT show is so far away.......... :?
 
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