[Poor Knight]

I've narrowed down my optics choices for my 6.8 mm, which now will be my hunting and competition rifle, for Texas deer and hog hunting and tactical rifle matches. I had decided on an ACOG TA31DOC, but now I am going to put that optic on my LMT 5.56mm upper which will be a patrol rifle and my SHTF upper. Given that the LWRC 6.8mm is competiton and hunting, I am looking at a low-power variable optic, and my current choices are the Leupold CQ/T, the EOTECH with a FTS magnifier, or a Trijicon Accupoinnt (hopefully they are coming out with a 1-4x in early '09). I am sticking with a single optic because that keeps me out of OPEN class for competition, but I want some magnification for hunting, and I want an illuminated reticle. Right now I am leaning to the Leupold CQ/T because it seems to do everything I want pretty well -- it's a true 1x, it has an illuminated reticle, it's designed for the AR and the black reticle is usable without batteries -- just not illuminated. The Accupoint 1-4x would be my first choice if it was available but I don't know when it will be available. The EOTECh looks interesting but is unusable without batteries. The great thing about the EOTECh is that head position and eye relief don't matter -- the CQ/T even on 1x head position and eyerelief do matter. The other advantage is the 1 moa dot of the Eotech -- the CQ/T dot seems pretty big - 9 MOA at 1 x an 3 moa at 3x -- doesn't seem to allow for much accuracy.

Anyway, any advice or thoughts?

 

[marinesg1012]

I like the Acog for most things. I dont mind the Eotech for 100 yards and in, for my hunting rig I have a 3.5-10X becuase the lower power makes quick shots easy and I could zoom in on stuff if I need to.
I have never used just a straight red dot so I cant comment on that but I think that you would like zoom, I think if the Eotech finds a permanent home n the Xtreme upper I have on order I will get the 3x magnifier.

 

[owenslee]

I have fallen in love with the Millet DMS-1.
I now have three...

They offer the same features you list for the Leopold of 1-4x. true 1x , illuminated reticle, and black reticle with no battery. I also like the 30mm tube.

The feature I like best is the dot in a donut reticle with 1 moa dot for precision shooting and a 10 moa ring for picking up fast moving targets. I can even use portions of the reticle for holdover beyond 300 yds.

At $199 from SWFA...I don't feel there is a better more versatile optic value on the market. It does EVERYTHING I need to do...very well.

The optics are exceptionally clear for an optic in this price range. And I can equip 2-3 uppers with the DMS for what one of the higher cost choices would cost.

Add a $25 30 mm CAA mount and you have an outstanding but economical working package.

Here is the one I used this year for deer season:

Kerry

 

[ccoker]

for my 6.8 I tried the following
Eotech with 3x (aimpoint) magnifier
Bushnell 1.25-4 with lit german #4
Meopta 1-4 with KDOT lit reticle
ACOG TA33 (bought 2, still using one on my 5.56 for tactical fun stuff, 3 gun, whatever)
Burris Euro Diamond 1.5-6 with light german #4

sticking with the Burris, pretty good glass, bold reticle, fast at 1.5 with a big field of view and 6x is plenty for hogs out to 200 yards easily

 

[caporider]

TA31H, T-1.

I'm shooting this configuration in parallel with a TA33/T-1 5.56 setup to see which ends up working better over the long term. The TA31H is a very nice optic with a very useful reticle. I don't need to say anything that hasn't already been said about the T-1.

 

[paulosantos]

If you get a magnifier, get the Aimpoint magnifier with the Larue flip mount.

 

[DocGKR]

QHGQB

What optics are durable enough to withstand the rigors of combat with our Nation's top warriors?

1. For CQB/home defence from 0-100, the Aimpoints, particularly the T1, in a LaRue mount are the best option currently available. Adding a Aimpoint (not EOTECH) 3x magnifier in a LaRue LT649 mount allows a useful optic for the 100-300 range.

2. For mid-range work, a low power variable in the 1-4x range is the way to go. The S&B 1.1-4x Short Dot is the standard which all others are judged by. The NF 1-4x is nice as well. For those on a budget, the Trijicon Accupoint 1-4x and Leup 1.5-5x have proven to work in combat as well. LaRue SPR-E or SPR-1.93 (to clear a 12 o'clock laser) are good choices. Circle-dot reticles are not precise enough for the longer range shots--I'd strongly recommend a standard reticle. The ACOG's are durable and work reasonably well, particularly the 3.5x TA11, but they are not as versatile as a variable power; putting a mini RDS on top of an ACOG is NOT an ideal solution. The Elcan 1-4x has been problematic. FWIW, the Leup CQ/T blows chunks...

3. For mid to long range use, a variable optic around the 3-10x range is the way to go--the S&B 4-16x, the NF 2.5-10x or 3.5-15x are ideal. The Leup 2.5-8x and 3.5-10x have also proven to work well. LaRue SPR mounts work well.

 

[paulosantos]

Here are some of the scopes that I used.

The Leupold CQT is a poorman's Aimpoint/EOTEch with a Magnifier. Out to 250 Yards, it is OK. If it was a couple of hundred dollars cheaper it would be a good scope. It has no BDC Reticle or BDC Turrets and the Center dot is 3MOA, which is too big. It is a good scope, but nothing special about it and a little overpriced.

The ACOG: The more I shot it, the more I didn't like it. I hate caliber specific reticles.

Variable scopes: I really like the Horus Talon 1x4 scope. It is a little expensive and the illumination isn't daytime visible, but it is still pretty good. I really liked it and wish I never sold mine.

The Aimpoint/EOTech with magnifier is a good combo, but kind of heavy and expensive. If you already have an Aimpoint or EOTech and want to add the magnifier as another tool, it is good, but if you want something with magnification, I'd get a variable 1x4 scope.

I have also had several variable scopes with a red dot on top or on the side in the Larue side mount and I just didn't care for it. It was too heavy and too awkward for me and I couldn't shoot it from the weakside.

My favorite scope is the Swarovski 1x6 scope. I've shot so many scopes with the circle dot reticles that I now shoot much better with a circle dot reticle than anything else.

 

[paulosantos]

The new Trijicon TR24 1x4-24 scope looks very promising.

 

[marinesg1012]

I would like to hear more about this, I am going to play with my ACOG and the NVD's this time I am home, an illuminated cross hair type that is a variable would be good on that kind of rig.

 

[owenslee]

...an illuminated cross hair type that is a variable would be good on that kind of rig.

This is the Millet DMS-1 used with a PVS-14 at both 1X and 4X....


1X....with intensity set too high

4x...with intensity turned down a little so that the center dot is discernible

Kerry

 

[marinesg1012]

Thanks.... I am going to try to set up my Eotech with the NVG option, and try my Acog and see which one I like the best this time home.

those are great pictures.

 

[Black45]

Can you guys give me an opinion of the Millet DMS-1 vs the NF 1-4? In other words, is the NF really worth the extra $1100? The Millet looks pretty sharp especially given the comments and pix above.

Thank you.
Black45

 

[owenslee]

Can you guys give me an opinion of the Millet DMS-1 vs the NF 1-4? In other words, is the NF really worth the extra $1100? The Millet looks pretty sharp especially given the comments and pix above.

Thank you.
Black45

My $.02....

#1 Your not headed to combat. Based on your uses, your life is not going to hinge on the combat durability of your selected optic.

#2 Is the Nightforce a better optic? Some might say yes...but it's not 6.5 X better than the DMS-1

#3 For hunting, competition and home defense the Millet has a great deal of versatility. It is a tremendous bargain by comparison.

I would rather buy the DMS and spend the remaining $1100 on ammo and mags.

I equipped three AR's with the DMS-1 and still did not spend half of the cost of one NF.

There is a point in equipment selection of diminishing return. There are a lot of serviceable, effective, good quality pieces of equipment available that will not break the bank. They may not be the best at any cost...but they are cost effective.

At some point you have to ask: does spending more money on an optic by a factor of 6.5 X really provide you with 6.5 X the benefits...?
I contend it does not.


Kerry

 

[Black45]

Thank you for the feedback.

 

[Guilty]

Great informative post on optics. It gives me some things to think about while I decide what optics will meet my needs best for my Noveske 6.8 Recon upper that I should receive in the next few weeks.

 

[ceylonc]

I have fallen in love with the Millet DMS-1.
I now have three...

They offer the same features you list for the Leopold of 1-4x. true 1x , illuminated reticle, and black reticle with no battery. I also like the 30mm tube.

The feature I like best is the dot in a donut reticle with 1 moa dot for precision shooting and a 10 moa ring for picking up fast moving targets. I can even use portions of the reticle for holdover beyond 300 yds.

At $199 from SWFA...I don't feel there is a better more versatile optic value on the market. It does EVERYTHING I need to do...very well.

The optics are exceptionally clear for an optic in this price range. And I can equip 2-3 uppers with the DMS for what one of the higher cost choices would cost.

Add a $25 30 mm CAA mount and you have an outstanding but economical working package.

Here is the one I used this year for deer season:

Kerry

Thanks for sharing your opinions/observations. It is very helpful for folks like me trying to get the most for their money.

Another question: How do you like the CAA mount? It seems like there might have a cheek weld issue (more like a "chin weld") due to the height. The reason I ask is I have a 6.8 upper with a YHM fold down front sight. Would a lower one-piece mount work for me with the DMS-1? If so, any recommendations?
By the way, nice buck! I'm looking to use my setup for deer, hogs, and some range work to 200yds or so...
Thanks!

 

[owenslee]

I have fallen in love with the Millet DMS-1.
I now have three...

They offer the same features you list for the Leopold of 1-4x. true 1x , illuminated reticle, and black reticle with no battery. I also like the 30mm tube.

The feature I like best is the dot in a donut reticle with 1 moa dot for precision shooting and a 10 moa ring for picking up fast moving targets. I can even use portions of the reticle for holdover beyond 300 yds.

At $199 from SWFA...I don't feel there is a better more versatile optic value on the market. It does EVERYTHING I need to do...very well.

The optics are exceptionally clear for an optic in this price range. And I can equip 2-3 uppers with the DMS for what one of the higher cost choices would cost.

Add a $25 30 mm CAA mount and you have an outstanding but economical working package.

Here is the one I used this year for deer season:

Kerry

Thanks for sharing your opinions/observations. It is very helpful for folks like me trying to get the most for their money.

Another question: How do you like the CAA mount? It seems like there might have a cheek weld issue (more like a "chin weld") due to the height. The reason I ask is I have a 6.8 upper with a YHM fold down front sight. Would a lower one-piece mount work for me with the DMS-1? If so, any recommendations?
By the way, nice buck! I'm looking to use my setup for deer, hogs, and some range work to 200yds or so...
Thanks!

I like the mount a lot. It is well made, uses Torx screws and a single hex nut for attaching to the upper rail. It is great... as long as you use a 30mm optic tube. I do not like the shims for use with a 1" optic tube. If I were to improve it I would like to see a longer mounting surface with two quick release cam locks. But the single hex nut works well and remains secure. For $25 it is a steal.

As far as height of the mount...it is ideal for me at 40 mm ( 1.575") above the top surface of the upper rail. I can maintain a good check weld and the scope lines up naturally when shouldering.

Kerry

 

[Black45]

I plan on using the LaRue mount that they have with the NF 1-4 optic.

 

[T.Rexford]

I plan on using the LaRue mount that they have with the NF 1-4 optic.

This is what I'm currently running and its been excellent so far. Going straight to Larue I found was my best bet. Plus you'll probably get some Dillo Dust