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Discussion Starter #1
this is for some mild long range plinking, but also for a lot of hunting. id really like to be in the $300-$400 range. choices are as follows:

Bushnell Elite 3200 5-15x50- $349
Bushnell Elite 3200 5-15x40- $329
Millett 4-16x56 Buck Gold 30mm- $184
Millett 6-24x44 Buck Gold- $179
Nikon 3-9x40 Team Primos- $199
Nikon 6-18x40 Buckmasters- $349
Leupold VX-II 4-12x50- $479

found all these on opticsplanet.com and swfa.com. i love the leupold but that price is really pushing my limit. i really like the crosshairs on the nikon team primos scope but its not that powerful. the millet 6-24 really catches my eye because of how powerful it is and how inexpensive it is, but that makes me think that its not that high quality... i think im leanin towards the bushnell 5-15x50 for now. any help would be greatly appreciated. tryin to get this thing on so i can take a buck in 2 weeks with it. thanks
 

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Look at the Nikon Monarchs. Not the Monarch Golds, but just the plain monarchs. I think the glass is better than a leupold vxIII. The price on them is really good. I got mine on EBAY for $369. That was a 2.5-10x50 nikon monarch. The monarchs are very underated. I am more than happy with mine......I have one on my bolt action and my 6.8.
 

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msu33 said:
Look at the Nikon Monarchs. Not the Monarch Golds, but just the plain monarchs. I think the glass is better than a leupold vxIII. The price on them is really good. I got mine on EBAY for $369. That was a 2.5-10x50 nikon monarch. The monarchs are very underated. I am more than happy with mine......I have one on my bolt action and my 6.8.
+1 New Monarch Line.. they just revised the line this year or last year. I'm going to get one for a bolt gun I bought last spring. A friend traded off a Pentax to buy one of the new Monarchs with the BDC after looking thru the Monarch's glass. Bright and clear. He let me look thru the scope and it's nice. You can also get a Mildot reticle for the same price in some models. Plus, you can order different turrets from Nikon to put on yourself if you decided you wanted target turrets for distance shooting.

http://www.swfa.com/c-2201-nikon-monarc ... copes.aspx

I read the Team Primos are last years Monarchs so they're a good deal also, it's just that Nikon revised the line.

The Busnell 3200 are good values too if you go that direction.
 

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I would go with Nikon, I am not overly impressed with the New Leupolds, I have a nikon titanium and it is great.
 

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I know how frustrating it is when you've narrowed it down and somebody tries to suggest something else...but did you check out the Bushnell 3-12 x 56? It's 20 oz--a bit on the heavy side, but it is illuminated and has over 4" of eye relief. It's not listed on the Bushnell USA website but I found it at Adorama for under $180. Mine's on backorder, so I don't know how long it'll be before I can let you know what I think of it!

My own research on the subject makes me think you also would do very well with the Nikon Monarch or the Bushnell 4200 series. Good luck, just be thankful for all those choices!
 

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If your going to hunt with it I wouldnt go with a 6-18 unless you dont hunt during sunrise and sunset. The 6-18's lose light real quick. I got one. Use to have a 8-32. Great for varmints and targets but I would stick with the 4-12, 4.5-16 area.

Like said above, Look at the monarchs. Great scope.
Leupolds are nice and so are the elite 4200's

The rainguard on the elite 4200 is awesome.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
what exactly is eye relief? is that your head position vertically or horizontally? and by horizontally i mean how far away from the scope your eye is.

this will be used for deer/hog hunting so i guess light transmission is pretty important? so a 6-18 is a no go? dang i cant decide b/c ill be plinking with this during the day a lot and id love to be able to see something 300 yds away easily through my scope. cant do that as well with a 3-9... the 4-12s look good but those nikon 5-15s look good also. please help this is really frustrating me!! so many damn choices!!!!

i found opticsspot.com which is real intruiging since you dont pay tax/s&h, the price you see is what you pay. got some additions for yall:


Nikon BuckMasters 4.5-14x40 SF $299.00

Bushnell Elite 3200 4-12x40 AO $269.00

Nikon BuckMasters 4.5-14x40 SF $289.00


i REALLY like the BDC reticle, so if yall have any suggestions please tell me! most of these on the new list have the BDC or atleast have it as an option for no extra charge on opticsspot.com

thanks a ton
 

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Discussion Starter #8
ArtFWTx said:
msu33 said:
Look at the Nikon Monarchs. Not the Monarch Golds, but just the plain monarchs. I think the glass is better than a leupold vxIII. The price on them is really good. I got mine on EBAY for $369. That was a 2.5-10x50 nikon monarch. The monarchs are very underated. I am more than happy with mine......I have one on my bolt action and my 6.8.
+1 New Monarch Line.. they just revised the line this year or last year. I'm going to get one for a bolt gun I bought last spring. A friend traded off a Pentax to buy one of the new Monarchs with the BDC after looking thru the Monarch's glass. Bright and clear. He let me look thru the scope and it's nice. You can also get a Mildot reticle for the same price in some models. Plus, you can order different turrets from Nikon to put on yourself if you decided you wanted target turrets for distance shooting.
http://www.swfa.com/c-2201-nikon-monarc ... copes.aspx

I read the Team Primos are last years Monarchs so they're a good deal also, it's just that Nikon revised the line.

The Busnell 3200 are good values too if you go that direction.
what are turrets?
 

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Eye relief is the distance from your eye to the scope (Ocular Lens).
The elevation and windage turrets are what allow you to zero your scope.

 

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+1 on this: Bushnell Elite 3200 5-15x40- $329

I have the 3x9x40 on a 7mm Mag - GOOD scope. The 4x12x40 should do you well also.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
i guess i should decide what kinda power i need. a lot of people have 3-9s but that seems a bit underpowered. if this is gonna be used on deer/hogs/targets out to maybe 300 yds, is a 4-12 enough or should i shoot for a 5-15? ill be deer hunting morning/evening and ive already been told 6-18s lose light quickly, so is a 4-12 better than a 5-15 in that aspect?
 

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A scope that can target shoot and hunting both can be done easily, but you're looking for a compromise that gives you good magnification for target shooting and a lower magnification if needed for hunting and field of view.

A 3x9 is the classic American hunting scope for big game. I have a 3x9 on my favorite 308. A 3x9 Redfield scope or Leatherwood served American Snipers well during the latter part of the Vietnam war and they were hitting targets hundreds of yards away. So you can be very effective with that power range combo.

Now if you go to a 3x12, 4.5x14, etc, you are still good for hunting but you have more magnification for long range viewing or pulling that target in closer. 5x20, 6x24 etc are more for varminting and target shooting. Their minimum power may be too high for a close in shot or a moving shot.

You have so many options because there are so many combinations for different people. I think you'd like something like a 3x12 or a 4x14 or so. Use these as examples, as each manufacturer may offer a model 1x or .5x different on either end.

Target turrets or tactical turrets (sniper) are taller (for gripping and twisting easier) and have clear markings on them for dialing them up and down in the field for adjusting for wind drift and range (elevation). Look at Leupold's Tactical scopes for pics of target turrets. I read in Nikon's catalog they offer target turrets you can screw on your Monarch scope if you want them. Many shooters and hunters use regular turrets with screw on covers and do not adjust for windage and elevation using the turrets. Your BDC reticle is used without spinning the turrets for each range, instead you put the circle for the range on the target and shoot. Watch the movie "Shooter" or "Sniper" to see a movie where the shooter dials in his scope.
 

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jackh said:
i guess i should decide what kinda power i need. a lot of people have 3-9s but that seems a bit underpowered. if this is gonna be used on deer/hogs/targets out to maybe 300 yds, is a 4-12 enough or should i shoot for a 5-15? ill be deer hunting morning/evening and ive already been told 6-18s lose light quickly, so is a 4-12 better than a 5-15 in that aspect?
My deer and hog hunting has occurred from 3yds to 200yds, so 3x9 is good for me. You'll need to match your glass pick with your own "usual hunting distance." The more magnification you go with the more wobble you'll see in the scope holding offhand. Braced or prone shots would be best all-around.

Your eyeball allows a maximum of 4mm-5mm of light thru at any time. So, take your objective size 40mm and divide it by the magnification setting you're hunting at, to calculate the amount of light coming in to your eye.

Max Mag. Examples:
4x12x40 -- 40 / 12x = 3.3mm of light to the eye (brighter image seen)
5x15x40 -- 40 / 15x = 2.6mm of light to the eye (darker image seen)

Obviously, the lower the mag. you hunt with, the more light that comes thru for hunting. The 4x-12 will always beat the 5x-15 on light transmission on the far ends of their different settings. The 3x-9 is better still. All boils down to anticipated hunting situations.

Maybe ask: What's the closest distance you'd expect to see/shoot a deer with this new scope? Answering that may decide the scope...
 

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Nice explanation Chris65.
 

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I think most people go up in magnification so they can "see better"
when really, for big game hunting what they really need is better glass

6x with really good glass shows more detail (like the size of the horns or is there a twig in the way) than 10x with cheaper glass, especially in low light.

too much magnification makes it very hard to get on moving game, or to find an animal quickly and get on him fast and be able to take that shot that may only give you 5 seconds to find him in the scope, line up the shot and execute.

if you do any stalking having a low power like 2 or less is good
my 6.8 uses a 1.5-6 and I think it's the perfect power range
at 1.5 it's both eyes open and fast, at 6x I have no problem shooting a deer or hog at 200 yards
at 300 yards perhaps a bit more power is good, my 270 has a Kahles CL 3-10x50
most of the time out of a stand it's set at the low power and will get up to 6x for a 200 yard shot

like the others said, really evaulate your most common shots and then spend as much as you can stand on the scope.

I have had to compromise on the quality of some of my scopes due to the amount of rifles I have to outfit. None of them have cheap scopes but I would sure like premium glass on all of them!

A Kahles CL 2-7x36 with a #4a reticle can be had for 550 and it's got VERY good glass, only the top of the line Swarovski and Zeiss have better glass

another great all around scope is the Trijicon Accupoint 3-9x40 with a tritium and fiber optic lit center dot reticle, similiar price, very, very good glass.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
chris65 said:
jackh said:
i guess i should decide what kinda power i need. a lot of people have 3-9s but that seems a bit underpowered. if this is gonna be used on deer/hogs/targets out to maybe 300 yds, is a 4-12 enough or should i shoot for a 5-15? ill be deer hunting morning/evening and ive already been told 6-18s lose light quickly, so is a 4-12 better than a 5-15 in that aspect?
My deer and hog hunting has occurred from 3yds to 200yds, so 3x9 is good for me. You'll need to match your glass pick with your own "usual hunting distance." The more magnification you go with the more wobble you'll see in the scope holding offhand. Braced or prone shots would be best all-around.

Your eyeball allows a maximum of 4mm-5mm of light thru at any time. So, take your objective size 40mm and divide it by the magnification setting you're hunting at, to calculate the amount of light coming in to your eye.

Max Mag. Examples:
4x12x40 -- 40 / 12x = 3.3mm of light to the eye (brighter image seen)
5x15x40 -- 40 / 15x = 2.6mm of light to the eye (darker image seen)

Obviously, the lower the mag. you hunt with, the more light that comes thru for hunting. The 4x-12 will always beat the 5x-15 on light transmission on the far ends of their different settings. The 3x-9 is better still. All boils down to anticipated hunting situations.

Maybe ask: What's the closest distance you'd expect to see/shoot a deer with this new scope? Answering that may decide the scope...
thanks so much for that explanation. i have walked up on deer >20 yds away before and they never knew i was there b/c i was perfectly still and the wind was right. i guess a 3-9 would be fine but i think ill go with 4-12 just so ill have the extra mag for targets when i need it. does that sound like a good idea?
 

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Discussion Starter #18
ccoker said:
A Kahles CL 2-7x36 with a #4a reticle can be had for 550 and it's got VERY good glass, only the top of the line Swarovski and Zeiss have better glass

another great all around scope is the Trijicon Accupoint 3-9x40 with a tritium and fiber optic lit center dot reticle, similiar price, very, very good glass.
$550 is too much for me but id be willing to pay $450. ill check those out, havent looked into any Trijicons yet so ill go check opticsspot. are Swarvski and Zeiss the best brands out there?

this is starting to make sense. i looked through two different VX-IIs at bass pro the other day. one was 4-12 the other 6-18 i think. the higher powered one was a little blurry but a lot darker than the less powerful one.

im thinking a 4-12x50 is the ideal scope for me. has good magnification and large FOV...
 

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if you really want 12x, check out a Nikon Monarch 3-12x42
theopticzone gets a lot of my business

you can get a 2.5-10x42 Monarch
I think better glass than the VX3

Also the Bushnell 4200s are great scopes for the money though they seem long to me
 

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Discussion Starter #20
the trijicons are too expensive for me. anybody checked out the Millett Tactical Rifle Scope TRS-1 4-16x50mm
 
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