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Not trying to pick on you but I honestly disagree. The 6.8 SPC is just not that well suited for a long range cartridge. It does ok but there are too many out there better suited to it for the 6.8 to ever be considered by those specifically looking to shoot long ranges.
It is not a long range cartridge anymore than the 6.5 Grendel is. Honestly, compare data and the 6.8 comes out ahead, but you know those 6.5s just somehow defy physics and are super duper long range killers.
 

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Discussion Starter · #102 ·
Not trying to pick on you but I honestly disagree. The 6.8 SPC is just not that well suited for a long range cartridge. It does ok but there are too many out there better suited to it for the 6.8 to ever be considered by those specifically looking to shoot long ranges.
Agree, just not enough powder capacity to push big heavy high BC bullets. The 130 Berger has a better BC than the 140.
 

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It is not a long range cartridge anymore than the 6.5 Grendel is. Honestly, compare data and the 6.8 comes out ahead, but you know those 6.5s just somehow defy physics and are super duper long range killers.
LOL yeah, sorry. I was talking reality. Not Grendel Fanboy reality. Grendel market pretty much died out since the Creedwhore took over.
 

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LOL yeah, sorry. I was talking reality. Not Grendel Fanboy reality. Grendel market pretty much died out since the Creedwhore took over.
I don’t know that it has, not to be argumentative but I would guess there are more Grendel’s sold than SPCs. Bolt action or semi auto. Which is unfortunate I own 3 6.8s, I’m invested in the cartridge, that’s why I think a reinvention would be the best course of action. Maybe PSA now that they’re making ammo under the AAC name would take it on?
 

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Just because something didn't sell once doesn't mean it wouldn't sell again. Market timing is everything. There's WAY more noise about 6.8 caliber cartridges now then there was back then.

To that end, maybe simply renaming the 6.8 SPC II would be a good idea, or create a new chambering that is completely compatible with SPC II but called something else. Actually, I guess H already has-- the 6.8 ARP. Either way, I think the gun manufacturers are still soiling themselves over the SPC I vs SPC II chamber issues and liability, no matter how ridiculous that might be.

Perhaps if they could call it something totally new they could eliminate that confusion. Call it 6.8 Epiphany. That would raise some eyebrows. Load 'em hot and watch the media swoon.

-Stooxie
Bingo
I have talked personally to the reps at Shot Show every year for the last 5 years about the 6.8. Well every year they held it damm covid BS.
I'm at Shot every year looking at potential products, talking to my vendors and talking about the 6.8 to anyone who will listen.
I get the same response, to much non standard stuff out there with the 6.8 and they worry about liability.
They also consider it a niche market with the 6.8 and dont think sales would be worth dev time.
Basically the same answer with them all.
Even though we know anyone doing a .224V would have a pretty easy time making a 6.8 rifle.
Lipseys or Davidsons product dev team or management could ask for something if they thought it would sell. Thats who you have to get to.
I reached out to Winchester since they just brought out ammo. However their ammo division is owned by Olin. So Winchester rifles and Winchester ammo are 2 different companies. I havent heard back from the guy that makes decisions about rifles yet.
Our little cartride deserves more merit than it gets.
I'll be at shot this next year pushing it again. Every damm year.
 

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There is one simple reason that the 6.8 (and most other caliber variants of the AR) is not as popular as they should be. It is not chamber related in the slightest. That has never been a problem. It simply provides some brands with a higher upside for reloaders which are a small segment of the overall market. All quality ammunition works in all barrels and it has from the beginning. Ignore that smoke-screen which has recently shown up.

The simple problem and it applies to all calibers is the price of ammunition across the board. If there is not a supply of ammunition that is considered affordable by the end user, the caliber will not flourish. That is one of the few categories that Grendel excelled in-cheaper ammunition on the bottom end compared to other calibers.

I believe the average buyer will always pick .223/5.56 on a cost basis because, high as it currently is, it is still cheaper by a fair margin than any other caliber. I have calibers of AR's from .204 to .458 Socom and the 6.8 is by far the most useful caliber in my opinion even tho I like them all. When it comes to shooting, nothing is cheaper in volume and just having fun with an AR than my .223/5.56 and the next cheapest might be my .45 ACP sbr altho I really have not verified that.

Overall, nothing beats some of the surplus AK stuff, of course (that I bought in the past).

It's pretty simple economics, the cheaper the loaded round, the more use the gun will get. Ammo will never come down to the price of a few years ago. That is simply not the way it works. All these new rounds take up some room on the production line for the moment, but I think reality/history tells us that many of them will be of limited popularity down the road. In the end, 9mm and .223/5.56 will at the top of the list.

It will take quite awhile for the new military stuff to trickle down, if it actually does.

The man that produces 6.8 at the price that we once paid for the Federal overruns, or even nearly twice that much will be king, but don't hold your breath. The rest of the discussion about name changes, and some of the other stuff is really about jockeying for position in a market that does not exist. Cheap ammunition and abundant marketing are the only two things that count long term with average consumers like me. High priced ammo that kills stuff twice as dead is not what the majority of us want or need. One box is good for hunting those things that don't drop dead when shot in the heart or neck. Otherwise, I want to go out and shoot a 200 rds at a time without wondering if I can pay the electric bill. I admit, I worry about that later :D
 

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There is one simple reason that the 6.8 (and most other caliber variants of the AR) is not as popular as they should be. It is not chamber related in the slightest. That has never been a problem. It simply provides some brands with a higher upside for reloaders which are a small segment of the overall market. All quality ammunition works in all barrels and it has from the beginning. Ignore that smoke-screen which has recently shown up.

The simple problem and it applies to all calibers is the price of ammunition across the board. If there is not a supply of ammunition that is considered affordable by the end user, the caliber will not flourish. That is one of the few categories that Grendel excelled in-cheaper ammunition on the bottom end compared to other calibers.

I believe the average buyer will always pick .223/5.56 on a cost basis because, high as it currently is, it is still cheaper by a fair margin than any other caliber. I have calibers of AR's from .204 to .458 Socom and the 6.8 is by far the most useful caliber in my opinion even tho I like them all. When it comes to shooting, nothing is cheaper in volume and just having fun with an AR than my .223/5.56 and the next cheapest might be my .45 ACP sbr altho I really have not verified that.

Overall, nothing beats some of the surplus AK stuff, of course (that I bought in the past).

It's pretty simple economics, the cheaper the loaded round, the more use the gun will get. Ammo will never come down to the price of a few years ago. That is simply not the way it works. All these new rounds take up some room on the production line for the moment, but I think reality/history tells us that many of them will be of limited popularity down the road. In the end, 9mm and .223/5.56 will at the top of the list.

It will take quite awhile for the new military stuff to trickle down, if it actually does.

The man that produces 6.8 at the price that we once paid for the Federal overruns, or even nearly twice that much will be king, but don't hold your breath. The rest of the discussion about name changes, and some of the other stuff is really about jockeying for position in a market that does not exist. Cheap ammunition and abundant marketing are the only two things that count long term with average consumers like me. High priced ammo that kills stuff twice as dead is not what the majority of us want or need. One box is good for hunting those things that don't drop dead when shot in the heart or neck. Otherwise, I want to go out and shoot a 200 rds at a time without wondering if I can pay the electric bill. I admit, I worry about that later :D
I invite you to go to Shot and talk to them yourself. Please do, please everyone that can do so.

Cheap ammo is a hard one right now.
Unless someone like Privi or Wolf etc started mass producing it in steel cased.
I cant buy brass for less than 70 cents each right now. Bullets, primers, powder all up as we all see.
Then theres the market.
Most ammo manufactures run 5.56/.223, 300BO, 7.62x39 ect on the same machines as 6.8.
So they are running all that stuff as demand dictates.
The europe situation certainly does not help.
I agree cheap ammo would help.
I'm a dealer for S&B and am being told one to two years for brass at the earliest.
I would love to see cheap 6.8 ammo. I dont see it happening but I do hope I am wrong on that one.
 

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When we get back to the core question/issue, I'm in complete agreement with Strawdawg. The price/availability of rifles & factory ammo pretty much drives popularity.

I was reminded about a back country gunshop that I visited a decade or more back in Geronimo Texas. The owner was making money hand-over-fist selling SKS rifles & ammo. He had a package deal going where you could buy a rifle & a case of ammo (steel) really cheap. I don't remember the price but it was cheaper than anything I ever heard of. That particular area was overrun with hogs (probably still is) & a cheap, high capacity semi-auto was making this LGS bubba rich! His buyers didn't care about knock-down power or effective range etc. If the rifle malfunctioned just bring it back & he'd give you another one. The guns had to go bang a lot of times & the ammo cost couldn't cut into the beer budget!
 

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Affordable rings a lot of bells. The one unique thing about the 6.8 is the low recoil/good energy which makes it suitable for kids, Ladies, young and old, targets, varmints, bigger game.
 

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I'm having a bit of a hard time with the "cost of ammo" argument. There was plenty of decently priced 6.8 SPC on the market, certainly far below a zillion other calibers (WSM, SAUM, etc, etc), that seem to have no entry below $2 a round even in the best of times. It wasn't that hard to find 6.8 FMJ or whatever for 40 or 50 cents and good hunting rounds for 75 cents to a buck. Absolutely in line with anything else.

Was there a total firehose option for 20 cents each? No, but I don't buy it that every caliber needs some dirt cheap option to be viable because so many popular calibers have never had a dirt cheap option.

-Stooxie
 

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Is there any company making a 224 Valkyrie bolt action?
I think it will take a big company to make and market a complete 6.8 bolt gun, those already doing a 224 V may be easiest to convert. Okay looks like Savage still shows the 224V so you only need a barrel to convert. Still not as easy as buying a complete rifle but an option.
Savage 10 Prairie Hunter comes in a Valkyrie. Mossberg does also but the couple I seen at the range, the owners complained about. I cannot remember what the complaint was though.
 

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Is there any company making a 224 Valkyrie bolt action?
I think it will take a big company to make and market a complete 6.8 bolt gun, those already doing a 224 V may be easiest to convert. Okay looks like Savage still shows the 224V so you only need a barrel to convert. Still not as easy as buying a complete rifle but an option.
I think maybe you need do another order of Savage barrels.

No barrel extensions to torque and no gas ports to drill.

Love mine


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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Sean R said:
Long range is where it’s at. Everyone thinks they’re a sniper.

-Stooxie
Ain't that the truth. And we all have access to 1000 yard ranges.
__

Somewhere between 1976 - 1986, I resembled those remarks.

My first and only three potato hooch & borscht goblers was NOV79, Gallipoli, Turkey.
Met the flight leader of the two Wild Weasel F4s @ Kennestone Hospital 03FEB2014.
He was getting a hyperbaric treatment in a group that included my mother. The Turkish SF
didn't want to deal with them so we did the target reductions. The later years we left examples
that couldn't have been attributed to bad dates.

Cpl. Grady Graves of Tennessee did the artwork and lettering design.
Backside:


Front, for the slower students:
 

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Honestly the spc need a rebrand and tighter spec control for any of the big boys to play. For them it comes down to liability. Make hot ammo for SPC II and someone puts it in an original SPC chamber. Then said person or their ambulance chaser sees dollar signs.
 

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Not a bolt gun guy at all. Not for hunting for me. I've already been in an easy 2nd shot situation and regretted not taking it cuz I thought I got a good hit.
My buddie last year has a 6.5 bolt and he had 2 deer, shot one, the other didn't move but he couldn't either, she was staring at him.
I'm just glad I found the best caliber for my first 2 ARs that makes hunting 100% more fun for me.
I haven't even touched my Muzzle loader since my SBR is legal during "alternative"
 

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Sean R said:
Long range is where it’s at. Everyone thinks they’re a sniper.

-Stooxie
Ain't that the truth. And we all have access to 1000 yard ranges.
__

Somewhere between 1976 - 1986, I resembled those remarks.

My first and only three potato hooch & borscht goblers was NOV79, Gallipoli, Turkey.
Met the flight leader of the two Wild Weasel F4s @ Kennestone Hospital 03FEB2014.
He was getting a hyperbaric treatment in a group that included my mother. The Turkish SF
didn't want to deal with them so we did the target reductions. The later years we left examples
that couldn't have been attributed to bad dates.

Cpl. Grady Graves of Tennessee did the artwork and lettering design.
Backside:


Front, for the slower students:
I keep reading this trying to figure out the relevance to the conversation. I’ll admit im stumped, well done 👍
 

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I keep reading this trying to figure out the relevance to the conversation. I’ll admit im stumped, well done
The best I could do with it, is that everybody wants to be a 'Sniper' these days, and that to 'Sell' the 6.8 that capability should be developed and promoted. Like you I am stumped if I take that to the next step after the why of it, which is how?

The mini action is limited, the magazine is limited. If you increase bullet length to take advantage of short actions and magazines, you'll increase mass, and even in solids you'll run out of energy to push it. 30+ grains will only get you so far.

My Dad had a philosophy that applies here by analogy.

"Since you can't change your land and environment to fit the cattle. You get the right cattle to fit your land and environment first, then you improve them for your specific situation."

That seems to me that is what has been done with the 6.8 SPC. Trying to change it's 'land and environment' so drastically just isn't practical. The cartridge has been optimized for the the landscape and environment that it was originally intended and 'bred' for. That of a light compact lethal platform. It was one that it exceled at, even though it was crippled for a time, and went unappreciated.

Lethality from QCB to the intermediate distance 'two-way' range was it's forte'. That the DOD and Federal failed in their mission to deliver those excellent capabilities to our warfighters fortunately didn't kill it. Those same abilities made it a great crossover to a few different but closely related 'landscapes and environments' if you will, i.e. Selfdefense, Rural General Purpose, and 80-90% of hunting purposes.

Those 'landscapes and environments are where the 6.8 SPC community should be focused. Not one for which it is fundamentally not suited and so many others really are.

A 6.8 SPC on a 'long range' hunt, or at a LR competition would be like seeing a 'Post Turtle'... A turtle on top of a fence post by the side of the road, it leaves you asking yourself why would anyone do that? You would be as Sean R said, stumped.

Speaking of 'Fence Turtles' and being stumped, maybe we could be asking why they installed Biden on the 'Fence Post' we see him floundering and frying on? Guess that'd be a different thread... never mind.
 

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Well you asked, and so I will go ahead and tell you what we have planned and how we feel about it. First the 6.8 SPC round is one that we feel real strong about not only because it was developed by a person in the military, but because it just makes sense. It does great for a lot of things including people killing, hunting, target shooting and just general shooting stuff. Things like the SAAMI spec, weapon variability and one of the most important is being able to use those magpul mags. They are perfect, lightweight, tacticool, etc. I'm not hating on any other brands, but I wasn't willing beyond the ruger mini 6.8 to buy a rifle that couldn't use the magpul mags, i imagine others are the same. With all that being said, what are "we" my company doing about it?

The very first thing is we have been designing a new rifle that utilizes a lot of great technology of the past and future. With that we aren't not willing to share a picture yet, but I will describe the rifle. The V-SH68 will be a gas piston driven, 6.8x43MM weapon system that will incorporate a sheet metal receiver, quick change barrel system, adjustable gas system, user customizable stock and pistol grip system. The magazine adapter will use the magpul mags, but we are working on the other one that will allow use of all other magazines. Along with this we will be releasing stripper clips like we hinted out in the other thread along with some more goodies. There will also be a belt fed machine gun variant too, but we suspect it will just be eye candy at this time. The other caliber choice will be 5.56, but no others are planned or are likely to be incorporated. I have no idea on the time of release, I am waiting on a few other inputs from some important voices in the field and then I will have a good idea of the date of when we will be able to release this thing.
 
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