LWRC functioning/reliability??

The shorter the barrel on a piston gun the better the groups will be. In general a shorter barrel has better mechanical accuracy then a longer barrel anyways. The piston system magnifies this effect. This is not the case with DI guns. But what is the point of a piston gun in the first place? Its not meant to be a precision gun its a high volume combat rifle focusing on maximum reliability. I think as time goes by and more and more is done with pistons you will see more refinement.

In case anyone would ever like to take the time to actually test the piston vs DI vs single shot is not exactly a hard thing to do and cuts ALL the BS out of it as its the same gun. Shoot 5x5 with the piston. Spin the gas block (the port has to be blocked off) shoot another 5x5. Put a DI gas block and BC in the gun and shoot the final 5x5. Obviously doing the proper cleaning ans warm up before each switch. Take the average and you will have your answer. NO armchair theories or speaking of true free or timing float yada yada yada. cold hard facts using the exact same gun shooter ammo. Different P-System will yield dif results as will barrel lengths and port locations mainly just in the variation between each not in the order.

According to what I have been told of the mil testing using milspec ammo all the current piston system including the SCAR have about the same accuracy. Far greater accuracy can be had using handloads and probably premium factory ammo. Most all piston guns have a 3 moa spec which is generally met.

I apologize if I'm re-hashing old topics, but I was unable to find the answers I was seeking by searching and reading old posts in this forum, on arfcom and LWRC forums. Just looking for some buying advice before I plunk down more of my hard-earned $ one of the highly-considered brands I have not personally used before.

Tim_W, thank you for your reasoned input and proposal for a definitive operating system test...

Mavericks, that is an awesome thread. I had read that some time ago, and bookmarked as a favorite. That took a ton of time to put together, and it is an awesome resource to compare so many different uppers.

And Randall, I didn't mean to get you all spun up. I really did wear out the search key here and on other forums trying to find somebody's accuracy comparison of 6.8 piston gun A to 6.8 piston gun B, and hadn't found what I'm looking for. there is no doubt in my mind the LWRC is a great platform, reliable, well-made, most guns can outperform the shooter, etc. The search here and on LWRC forums did, however find ample links to your positive comments on the platform and reliability, and on the other spectrum: a drawn-out "panicgram" from one poster about 5"+ groups, and several posters disappointed they were getting much bigger groups than expected with the LWRC. Just seeking a little additional info to influence my buying decisions.

Seal, sorry again I took your head off. I was in a hurry to get out the door when I read your post and didn't catch the piston vs. piston part. Add to that, I've been defending LWRC alot on this forum and I'm sick of it so I sort of snapped. Tim, as for flipping my gas block over to make it a single shot, my gas blocks are pinned and, even if I cared to, I'm not messing with them. I could take the piston apart but then I would have the hot gasses blowing back into my face. I have no doubt that my AR Performance 18" upper with Pacnor 12 twist three groove barrel is more accurate. It is a purpose built precision rifle. My LWRC's are purpose built for combat and big round counts. But if I need better accuracy than head shots at 100 yards, I'll let our snipers with their .308 bolt guns take over.

Seal, I understand about throwing all that money down for a rifle and making sure you get what you paid for. Most people I talk to that have gotten a good piston gun say they will not be going back to DI. That includes people I've spoken with on this forum as well and multiple fellow officers where I work that own LWRC's. Having said all that there are some good DI uppers out there that are a little less costly.

I have a new A2 with a 16" barrel. Zero issues so far.

In the piston world, LWRC really has their act together. You will notice that the new A3's and the SABR's all use the mid length piston system as opposed to the short length in the A2. That is by design. As was pointed out, the short stroke pistons are a perfect match for barrels 16" and under. The A3's and the SABR's are offered with 18" to 20" barrels, and the mid length stroke complements the timing of the blow back. The mid stroke also has the effect of reducing the recoil a bit in the 7.62 caliber SABR.

The only issue I have heard about is changing out buffers for a heavier buffer in some cases. The Tubb flat wire spring appears to solve any issues (and is a good idea in any event). Again, it is more of a timing issue with the piston stroke than anything else. If you have AR's to begin with, chances are you have an estra buffer or two lying around.

The torture test done by Pat Rogers is in the March edition of SWAT Magazine. Pat's writing style is pure fact, without the use of superlatives. He is to the point and direct. If you have any questions about LWRC, take a look at the article. I do not know of any other manufacturer of anything that would agree to a no conditions torture test of their product with no input or editorial veto powers in how the results were written up. Speaks volumes about the company, and the rifles they produce.

I had two early LWRC uppers that never ran correctly--I returned them to LWRC in November of 2007 and finally received new LWRC M6A1 replacement uppers a few weeks ago. Although it took 13 months, LWRC did correct the problem. I'll post some more info when I get more rounds through them.

My take on pistons is that for the vast majority of folks who shoot 2,000 rounds a month or less, a quality DI upper like the Noveske 16" N4 light recce mid-length or Colt 6920 will work great, as will custom uppers from folks like MSTN and many of the shops listed in the banner above. When you start shooting more rounds, especially with SBR's and suppressors, then piston uppers make more sense. The HK416 by far the most proven platform, although there have been a few glitches here and there. The LWRC is an elegant design--let's hope the new factory will allow them to ramp up production and QC. Like the LWRC, the 6.8 mm Barrett and Bushmaster pistons ran well in the TSWG MURG testing. ADC is an interesting new option, but has no track record--I hope to try one in the near future. Most piston conversions have not demonstrated sufficient reliability and durability across a broad spectrum of hard use.