[rcd567]

I think we need a KISS thread in that some folks seem to be overwelmed with all the different chamber dimensions and twist rates. As brought up in another topic, this confusion is leading some folks who are considering a 6.8 rifle to back away. While I agree that the standard chamber and 1:10 isn't ideal, for the average guy who won't run 500 rounds a year through it at no farther than 100 yards...it's good enough. And to the average shooter, he can't tell the difference between 2.28, 2.29, or 2.30 COL for his mags. Let's not scare the new guys off. Obviously, if your really into the 6.8, this doesn't apply to you as you already know the differences. There are those amoungst us that make a hobby of disecting the caliber and testing the differences to the millionth of an inch and have 28 different powders to test.


The average person can get by with the factory guns with factory loads, and still have an accurate, powerful rifle.

 

[Megalos]

I couldn't disagree more. The wealth of technical knowledge available (and the members that posses it) on this site is what keeps me here. Gun sites like you're suggesting are a dime a dozen, but sites like this one are rare.

 

[ron169]

I couldn't disagree more. The wealth of technical knowledge available (and the members that posses it) on this site is what keeps me here. Gun sites like you're suggesting are a dime a dozen, but sites like this one are rare.

I have to agree with Megalos. The reason we are so technical and harsh on some of the big name manufacturers is easy. Because of companies like DPMS who use constrictive chambers and non optimal barrel rifleing, companies like Hornady and Remington have to underpower their ammo. Thats hurts most upper end users because it leaves us with only once choice for ammo, SSA. Now SSA is a premium product, but right now they have NO competition. That is not good, because competition leads to lower prices and greater R&D.

If all companies switched to say a 1:11.5 twist, with a minimum of SPCII(or better) chamber, that could also lead to the military adopting the 6.8 as a widespread use round. What effect would that have? Brass cost would be cut in half. Loaded ammo cost could be cut in half. Die cost could go down 33%. Upper and RIfle cost would greatly decrease. That benifits all of us, whether it be the low end user or the high end buyer.

 

[paulosantos]

Hey, the guy on the left reminds of the guys from M4Carbine.net. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Actually most of us want things to be simple. The problem is that we are trying to [email protected] what Remingtom, DMS, amd Model1Sales have started. Once the specs are fixed, then we can Keep it Simple.

 

[rmcdermid]

What is the guy on the left drinking?

 

[ron169]

What is the guy on the left drinking?

Tacti-cool powerade... painted FDE :lol:

 

[paulosantos]

What is the guy on the left drinking?

Tacti-cool powerade... painted FDE :lol:

I think it is the new Magpul-ade. $30 per bottle. :lol: :lol: :lol: Comes in two flavors:
1. Oh-shit flavor. (shown in above flavor).
2. Berry ripped off Flavor.

 

[Strawdawg]

1) I don't think the average guy thinks of himself as average.

2) If there is an average guy, I don't think he is looking for an 6.8 as the guys that are migrating to the 6.8 are doing if for a specific purpose in most cases.

3) I would guess that most guys that do go for alternate calibers are also interested sufficiently in "gun technology" to want to know the pros and cons of various gun options, and, I suspect most of these guys don't really wish to settle for just any old gun.

4) I thought the chart that Paulo put together would be of interest to most prospective owners if for no other reason than to create talking points that help educate him. It seems to break things down into categories that can be discussed and understood.

5) If there is an average guy, I don't think he wants a '53 Plymouth when it comes to performance, and, I think the average guy wants the best performance for the money.

 

[6.8Vol]

Is that Borat on the left? :lol:

This is simplicity. Where else do you think you could find more about one type of gun in one place? And the best part is it doesn't cost a dime, well except for Team membership, which is a
bargain. Nothing wrong with a thread like that I guess, but I wouldn't sell the noob too short. I guess I'm still a noob. I have a plain ole 6.8 flattop 1:10 crap chamber M4 wannabe that can hit the target at 100 yds and I'm happy for now. But my next gun is going to be a badass that will outshoot me for a long time to come, because of this forum. Life is good.

 

[ArtFWTx]

I thought this was going to be a KISS carbine thread... also known as a minimalist rifle which I respect. Focus on function first. Oh well...

If the status quo is "wrong" do something about it. I support Paulosantos, that some manufacturers are only concerned about sales and as long as products are going out the door they aren't interested in change. Even if a significant performance and reliability gain can be had with changing barrel twist and chamber specs, these manufacturers will not adapt.

Also, if someone is coming to this board before purchasing a 6.8 and wants to know what's out there and what's a good set up we are going to share everything we have with them.

When you think about it, things are already KISS with the 6.8:

- You want SPC II or DMR chamber, or similar like Noveske's new chamber, because they lower pressure. Lower pressure allows higher performance at given pressures, and is easier on the rifle's mechanicals.
- 1:10 is the fastest twist you want, and it works okay with SPC II chambers. 1:11's or 1:12's are preferred because they lower pressure significantly more in most cases over a 1:10.

I think the average shooter coming to this site wants this information. That's what got me here in the first place, and look at me now, I'm "orange".

Art

 

[rcd567]

We can agree to disagree. Guess I'm wrong in thinking that an "average joe" can buy a Rock Rivers rifle, a couple hundred rounds of say S&B ammo from Cabelas, and go kill hogs. That won't work?

 

[paulosantos]

We can agree to disagree. Guess I'm wrong in thinking that an "average joe" can buy a Rock Rivers rifle, a couple hundred rounds of say S&B ammo from Cabelas, and go kill hogs. That won't work?

Of course it will work. Shit, I have an LMT, which by my own chart, gets a "D" until I converted it to the SPCII Chamber and it is now a "C".

 

[BLACK LION]

I think I get the idea. I think it works in all aspects though. People are out in search of the best gear and equipment too, not just firearms. I have found that alot of popular tactical nylon and different equipment looks good on paper , looks and feels good when you put it on but then sux when you actually have to get down in it. Take the drop leg platform for example. It fits great and looks nice but once you load it up, its not tight fitting any more and becomes very obtrusive... forget trying to run or jump over shyt.

As far as everything else is concerned. I dont think the intention of the post was to disregard the plethora of info and data that is expelled here. I think its intention was to voice the need for a seperate forum that keeps it simple.

On the other hand... its not our job to keep it somple for anyone other than ourselves and who we may be in charge of protecting. What may be simple for me may not be for you and vice versa. Only the individual can truly keep it simple, based on thier own reality.


and PAULOSANTOS ..that was a funny phukin reply my freind... I got a real chuckle out of that one.

 

[ArtFWTx]

We can agree to disagree. Guess I'm wrong in thinking that an "average joe" can buy a Rock Rivers rifle, a couple hundred rounds of say S&B ammo from Cabelas, and go kill hogs. That won't work?

What were you reading in the above posts? RRA is one of the brands that makes a good product... Did you read my post where I stated...

When you think about it, things are already KISS with the 6.8:

- You want SPC II or DMR chamber, or similar like Noveske's new chamber, because they lower pressure. Lower pressure allows higher performance at given pressures, and is easier on the rifle's mechanicals.
- 1:10 is the fastest twist you want, and it works okay with SPC II chambers. 1:11's or 1:12's are preferred because they lower pressure significantly more in most cases over a 1:10.

Show me where someone said you can not buy a RRA rifle, S/B ammo and go hunting? You can't because it's never been stated here. Besides the whole 6.8Xtreme upper program at $649 was created to make an affordable properly spec'd 6.8 upper for the "average Joe" whoever he or she is.

So you're saying we shouldn't recommend that Stag owners add M4 feed ramps to their rifles to make them more reliable? If we hadn't contacted RRA about 1:11 barrels they would not have an active program looking into updating their 6.8 products. We shouldn't point out that Model 1 Sales SAAMI chambered uppers with 1:9.5 twist run with excessive pressures and other alternatives in the same price range may be better choices? Come on.

Take a look at the photo threads and you'll see many production uppers from RRA, Stag and others. No pot stirring required.

 

[BLACK LION]

I dont think thats what he was saying or intending to say. He was simply stating in his own way how he feels the need for a kiss subforum for those that dont want to wade thru technicalities and what not to get a 6.8 and go shoot.

However....

I dont feel the need for a kiss subforum based solely on the average joe or even a professional operator not wanting to get all technical when getting a 6.8 to just go shoot around. Guys here are not going to tell you to go to model1sales to pick up a cheap upper that works just so you can go shoot. The guys here will poor out thier hearts and minds for you free of charge and allow you to make your own decision. Most every forum out there is filled with people that will just wave you off and tell you to just get this or that with out any care in the world. This is not that kind of forum. Here, you will get ALL the right info. Its not sink or swim here. Its... hey let me show you a stroke thats more effective and a way to control your breathing when in a state of shock or panic etc. Here you will be trained effectively in all 6.8 aspects basically wether you want to or not. I love it.

I too, dont know shyt about calculating ballistic tables and all the intricasies of the ar platform or any real technicalitites at all. However, I am mechanically inclined by nature and a gearhead at heart so I pick up on the technical stuff that does make sense and in turn I can help others in my own way. Guys like the ones here are near impossible to find and even more impossible to KISS. Try to get a kiss response from TIMW and see what happens :lol: . Tim is a great guy and I dont know where I would be without him. I know my rig wouldnt be the rig it is.

 

[Bushdog45]

For the record, the magpul-aide that guy is drinkin' is the Chinese copy. The original has yet to be released............

 

[paulosantos]

For the record, the magpul-aide that guy is drinkin' is the Chinese copy. The original has yet to be released............

:lol: :lol:

 

[constructor]

Hey, the guy on the left reminds of the guys from M4Carbine.net. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Actually most of us want things to be simple. The problem is that we are trying to [email protected] what Remingtom, DMS, amd Model1Sales have started. Once the specs are fixed, then we can Keep it Simple.

+1, The professional would never get a 6.8 if we had left it up to Remington, DPMS and Model 1 because the military would never take a second look at rifles blowing primers.
If it wasn't for Art and SSA there would be no 110 Nosler Accubond or 85gr Barnes TSX.
If it wasn't for the high performance testing some guys wouldn't look at it because as it was, the performance wasn't that good, now it approaches .243 velocities.

I am sure you could get a KISS thread going on ARFCOM.

 

[rcd567]

People, people, people...Wow, I had to go back and read my original post. We certainly are an emotional bunch aren't we? :lol: I said we needed a thread...which is not a forum or even a subforum. Just a thread to let folks...average or otherwise...know you CAN walk into Cabelas or where ever, purchase a stock rifle, whether it be RRA, DPMS, Stag, or whatever, buy a couple mags, (whatever they have on hand), a few boxes of ammo and go out and shoot the gun. You know, to further encourage folks to take up an AR in 6.8. Once they have it (insert evil laugh :twisted: ) we all know they'll become infected with BRD and migrate to the technical side, but my original point is to get people who are thinking about getting an AR and want something they can maybe kill a deer (.223 isn't legal in some states) or a hog with to understand that you don't need to worry about which twist, or mag length, or whatever is the current "Gotta have". Just get one, and enjoy. The disease will eventually infect them. I don't know how I can make my point any simpler...put down the dang rope will you?

 

[constructor]

For a long time it seems every thread started with "if you want to shoot SSAs combat loads or handload to get better performance you need a 11 twist barrel with a SPCII chamber. If you plan to shoot Hornady or Rem factory ammo almost any upper will do". Most of the guys that come here now read quite a bit first and don't ask why.