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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
68WJ said in a post earlier there isn't much going on in the tech area to keep the forum interested...more or less. I agree, there hasn't been much going on. A few different barrel offerings with different specs, a few more bullets and ammo offerings, guys loading long, new powders, a new Federal AR primer... What else?

A former 68forums industry partner is planning a new cartridge, not THE 6.8SPC or SPCII but A 6.8. A .277 wildcat based on the 6.8 case that is a little longer, possibly a little faster The crew is teaming up to offer a specialized receiver set from LWRC for Apx $700, mags and ammo from one supplier which we haven't seen a cost of yet. He says they will submit it to SAAMI but no guarantee it will be approved since Remington is on the board and may take exception to the cartridge being close to their 6.8x43 SPC.
That is a pretty big step up in tech and performance for a .277 cartridge in the AR15 platform.

Apx 9 weeks before that was announced I posted I was going to make a .277 wildcat based on the Grendel case that would allow us to use longer high BC bullets and get better accuracy by designing the chamber to work when the bullets are at mag length. Not a 6.8 or 6.8SPCII but a 6.8. A .277 wildcat that may be a little faster that will use existing mags in existing receivers. I am not working with LWRC and make no promises SAAMI will approve it.

Clearly different wildcats.

From what I understand custom lower receivers can be made for around $150, custom uppers can be made for around $150.
From what I understand custom metal mags stamped by CPD may cost 100-$200000 +
From what I understand custom injection molded mags may be produced for around $25000.
So for $300 for the cost of a custom size receiver set and $25 for a molded mag it MAY be possible to have any size platform you could dream up BUT it may take selling 2500 mags to make up for the additional cost of molds.

All of this has been discussed on this forum before. No one has jumped on it because (I assume)they didn't or don't think they can get their money back out of the project.
Other than the 22-250 and a few other odd cartridges does any ammo need an OAL other than 2.26(AR15) or 2.8" for short action cartridges?

The AMU appears to be pushing a 264USA and .277USA...pretty much .264 and .277 versions of Murray's 7MMUIAC. IIRC those cartridges require an OAL of 2.6". That is shorter than an AR10 but longer than an AR15. They also use a case a little larger dia than the Grendel and smaller than the 308. Carcano brass more or less. They offer more performance than any AR15 cartridge. The exterior ballistics of the 264 and 277 USA beat the 308 and are close to the 300 win mag with less weight and recoil of the 308. The ballistics are near identical to the 6.5BRX and 270AR or 6.5x45 and 6.8x45 I built a few years ago.
So while I see the military having a need for something like that I don't see the common man spending the money to have it unless the military adopts something like that.
What do YOU want to see? How much do you want to improve the 6.8? Is it the case that makes the 6.8 or is it the bullet diameter? How far do we go and how much do we spend? Ideas are endless like directions.

Oh yeah, I do know of some pretty cool hunting bullets coming out soon. Pretty excited about those.
 

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I think all this talk is great.

I do want to clarify that the former industry partner you referred to said they would take it to SAAMI, but did not say they would approve it. Approving it/registering it is up to the voting members at the table. One of those voting members is Remington itself. They could take exception and then at least at the "why do you care" conversation could be had with them.

I really liked the 6.8LR concept and would support it.

New bullet designs are great developments.

Subs ammo is a great development as it expands the capabilities of the cartridge.

The constant influx of kill pics is huge.
 

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I would like to see what could be done with the 270AR loaded out to 2.4 COAL. In a LWRC 6.8 receiver and metal mag.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I think all this talk is great.

I do want to clarify that the former industry partner you referred to said they would take it to SAAMI, but did not say they would approve it. Approving it/registering it is up to the voting members at the table. One of those voting members is Remington itself. They could take exception and then at least at the "why do you care" conversation could be had with them.

I really liked the 6.8LR concept and would support it.

New bullet designs are great developments.

Subs ammo is a great development as it expands the capabilities of the cartridge.

The constant influx of kill pics is huge.
Of course, no one can guarantee their cartridge will be approved by SAAMI. Another reason I wouldn't be interested in loading and selling ammo for a wildcat.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I would like to see what could be done with the 270AR loaded out to 2.4 COAL. In a LWRC 6.8 receiver and metal mag.
Some bullets would be closer to the lands and produce better accuracy I think. I have a LWRC set, kind of thinking 2.38" is going to be the limit if material and welds like PRI are used maybe .020" less if a lap joint/spot weld is used. Still that may allow another .5-.7gr of powder which could be good for 70fps. That's about what 3" of barrel would produce.
 

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Some bullets would be closer to the lands and produce better accuracy I think. I have a LWRC set, kind of thinking 2.38" is going to be the limit if material and welds like PRI are used maybe .020" less if a lap joint/spot weld is used. Still that may allow another .5-.7gr of powder which could be good for 70fps. That's about what 3" of barrel would produce.
It's worth it😀🇺🇸
 

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To get a longer COAL, another receiver set will have to be sourced. The Six8 is just stupid expensive, you won't get the common hunter to pay that. That is if you want to get the cartridge in more hands. Then you have the mag issue, the Six8 pmag doesn't offer much over a standard AR15 mag. If CPD will start making steel mags, might be a winner.

The more I hunt with a 12.5" barrel, the less I like anything longer. If I didn't want to shoot LR, all of my rifles would be that short.

I like the Nexgen, get a manufacture on board who's lower will bolt on with no issues and sell the idea like that. "Get your complete upper from ARP and lower from XXX, build away." All the problems I read about the AR10 style rifles are "parts don't fit" or "mismatched parts that don't function". The only downside I see to that is stocking lots of uppers/barrels/bolts, you could tie up some money in inventory. If the Creedmoor barrel shoots well, it will sell itself.
 

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Harrison thanks for opening this with a positive, constructive yet realistic approach.

I don't need more nor expect a lot more from the 6.8SPC ARP chamber. I think that is as good as it gets w/o getting major headaches for the average guy.
The ARP barrels have produced unprecedented accuracy with this chamber even with the Hot old SSA ammo. I bought a truck load of it.
Yes it would blow off primers here and there but otherwise the ammo has been pretty consistent on the big square box batches I got. I am aware of the other problems so we don't need to go there.
Even loads w/o the extra power this kind of consistency and accuracy of the barrels is more important to me. Real life repeatable accuracy and not cherry picked groups nor youtube mambo jambo.
Can use the commercial ammo for many purposes and reload when one wants more horse power. This forum is an ocean of wisdom in order to achieve that.

The chamber covers all the major gaps the AR15 has with the exception of long range where one needs to look into other bores and for nothing other than punching
paper or small game otherwise we need to move up from the AR15 portfolio no matter how exotic one wants to get cutting receivers and/or stretching mags.
When I say long range I am talking 600 yards and beyond. Long range means different things for different people depending on the location, equipment, skill and other conditions.
If one brings a reviewed chamber and cartridge to SAAMI great, but I am not loosing my sleep because of it.
For special purpose of the AR15 there are many other alternatives all pretty good and many seeking those they are already reloaders and some wildcatters too.
That is why I made myself the 35 gunner so I could harvest deer and bears like nothing in the thick northern woods. Now I can leave the 6.8 and 308 at home if I want.

Like you said, unless a new cartridge is adopted or something else happens it will be hard to justify for a limited market.
The masses are happy burning 5.56 spaying paper dinner plates with holes every weekend. There is also the BO saturday night fever for those who like softball.

I say, bring on the S750 and we will show those patent parasites what it can be done with the current lowers and mags.

Simple is good. I like simple.
 

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I'm in the minority as I like the 6.8 the way it is. I haven't reloaded since 1989 and I don't plan on starting again. I would just like more GOOD factory loaded bullets. I'm happy with the 90 GD's 115 Fusions and 120 SST's but I'd like to see something like the partition, again showing my age, nice mushroom through flesh and able to smash bone and continue through with the solid base.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I'm in the minority as I like the 6.8 the way it is. I haven't reloaded since 1989 and I don't plan on starting again. I would just like more GOOD factory loaded bullets. I'm happy with the 90 GD's 115 Fusions and 120 SST's but I'd like to see something like the partition, again showing my age, nice mushroom through flesh and able to smash bone and continue through with the solid base.
I used a lot of partition back in the day on hogs and goats. I think they have been replaced for the most part by the Barnes TSX bullets
 

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I would love to see Murray's 7mm UIAC become a reality. But don't think it would work in metal mag via LWRC's Six8 plateform.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I would love to see Murray's 7mm UIAC become a reality. But don't think it would work in metal mag via LWRC's Six8 plateform.
No, about a 1/4" too long. Works perfect in the Nextgen although I doubt I will ever finish up and offer the mags and bolts to convert them to Grendel, 6.8 and 5.56. Just doesn't seem to be a market for a rifle that will shoot everything from 5.56 to 308.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
To get a longer COAL, another receiver set will have to be sourced. The Six8 is just stupid expensive, you won't get the common hunter to pay that. That is if you want to get the cartridge in more hands. Then you have the mag issue, the Six8 pmag doesn't offer much over a standard AR15 mag. If CPD will start making steel mags, might be a winner.

The more I hunt with a 12.5" barrel, the less I like anything longer. If I didn't want to shoot LR, all of my rifles would be that short.

I like the Nexgen, get a manufacture on board who's lower will bolt on with no issues and sell the idea like that. "Get your complete upper from ARP and lower from XXX, build away." All the problems I read about the AR10 style rifles are "parts don't fit" or "mismatched parts that don't function". The only downside I see to that is stocking lots of uppers/barrels/bolts, you could tie up some money in inventory. If the Creedmoor barrel shoots well, it will sell itself.
I should have 20 and 22" Creedmoors around the end of July. The creed is without a doubt the hottest 6.5 cartridge at the moment.
Lately I have been paying attention to recoil. The 6.5x47 will produce 97-98% of the performance of the 260 with 10 grains less powder(20% less powder). The percentage of performance increases as the barrels get shorter...to a point. A case like the 6.5x47, 264USA, .277 USA, BRX with around 45gr capacity is almost perfect as far as performance VS recoil.
 

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I'm in the minority as I like the 6.8 the way it is. I haven't reloaded since 1989 and I don't plan on starting again. I would just like more GOOD factory loaded bullets. I'm happy with the 90 GD's 115 Fusions and 120 SST's but I'd like to see something like the partition, again showing my age, nice mushroom through flesh and able to smash bone and continue through with the solid base.
I too am content with the 6.8 for what it is and the purpose it serves me - a fun rifle to shoot and one for hunting deer on food plots at 100 yards or less. Although it has the capability for much longer kills, that is not why I own one (actually two). If I choose to sit on the edge of a cutover with shots of 200 yards or greater, I will outfit accordingly with a 308 or 30-06.

That said, I wouldn't trade my 6.8s for any other rifle in my safe.

I am a deer hunter. Not a long range target shooter. I have all the rifles I could ever need short of going to Africa for deadly game. In my opinion, the costs of adding another upper/rifle in an "improved" 6.8 caliber with say 10% gains in energy is not justified.

I would like to see advancements in ammo - more energy specifically. I just don't know how much further the 6.8, as it is known today, can improve to provide the speed needed for a 10% or more jump in power.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I too am content with the 6.8 for what it is and the purpose it serves me - a fun rifle to shoot and one for hunting deer on food plots at 100 yards or less. Although it has the capability for much longer kills, that is not why I own one (actually two). If I choose to sit on the edge of a cutover with shots of 200 yards or greater, I will outfit accordingly with a 308 or 30-06.

That said, I wouldn't trade my 6.8s for any other rifle in my safe.

I am a deer hunter. Not a long range target shooter. I have all the rifles I could ever need short of going to Africa for deadly game. In my opinion, the costs of adding another upper/rifle in an "improved" 6.8 caliber with say 10% gains in energy is not justified.

I would like to see advancements in ammo - more energy specifically. I just don't know how much further the 6.8, as it is known today, can improve to provide the speed needed for a 10% or more jump in power.
By handloading you can gain 150fps over factory velocity fairly easy, unfortunately that is only about 5%. To gain another 5% it means going from a 16" to a 22" or stepping up to a 270AR or 6.8x47/270-08
 

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What would be good if SOME ONE SAAMIed a 6.8 Spec II (6.8X43) chamber so we could get some Spec II only Factory Ammo made!
 

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I can't wait tot get my hands on some of those new hunting bullets to test-

as it stands, I think the 6.8spc is fine as it is--- the markets supply/demand will dictate what ammo is sold/bought anyway---right now I would guess that the manufactures have figured out that "cheep" ammo sells better than "premium" ammo in the AR chassis--- so they are gonna keep selling cheep vs. premium no matter what the saami specs do, I like it when we get a combo of cheep/premium (like the S&B 110PTS- it produces good velocities and decent accuracy, it's fairly inexpensive compared to other hunting ammo, it is good brass for reloaders, and it's a good bullet design so you can hunt or plink with it)
 

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What do YOU want to see? How much do you want to improve the 6.8? Is it the case that makes the 6.8 or is it the bullet diameter?
Great questions! What makes the 6.8, bullet or case? Um, yes. A cartridge with a .277 bullet for an AR15 type rifle is in the same spirit as a cartridge using the SPC case in a different bore. So I think end use is just as much a factor; it fits in an AR. Somehow I have avoided any of the variants (even had a free 6.5 SPC offered) and am still happy with the performance of good'ol 6.8 SPC handloads. I like to push a 110-115 as fast as safely possible, and don't see needing anything more, or wanting anything less, within realistic distances.

What do I want to see? 6.8 SPC proliferation. I recognize I am saying this to ARP, my preferred industry choice for any gun tube anyway so I am not wishing competition upon you, but I am referring to the average Joe that has a desire to get a rifle. Most don't build, or even think about going the custom route, and there are only a handful of names that people gravitate to without buying into premium. Even rifle companies that do make a 6.8 option don't really seem to make it known anymore. I just checked Bushmaster, and the only thing 6.8 in their catalog is $36 magazines. DPMS only has a 20", DD only has an upper including Ambush that went to just .308, is Stag out of the woods with their ATF trouble, and where is S&W, Wyndam, etc. Meanwhile, gun rags seem to be happy with 5.56 with various doodads hanging off of them, or ignoring the cons of another round because it uses the same bolt and has the magical bore diameter. Ammo needs to be more common and cheaper too. Though it has gotten better it still has a ways to go. I want everything we have now but with Remington to fix theirs, plus Winchester (white box, match, PDX, silver tip, etc). That will equal more brass for loading too. Give me a crappy steel cased option while we are at it just because I may just want to do a mag dump. And finally I want to see it at a gun shop without a ridiculous sticker price while some employee mumbles behind his beard, "yeeup, that's an expensive bullet, but anyone shooting it already knows that and probably doesn't shoot it much anyway".

Long way around, more 6.8 guns means more 6.8 ammo, or more ammo means more guns. Catch 22, but I think that means the 6.8 is more about the case because that is what bolts and magazines interact with. That is the baseline for any improvement.
 
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