[MichiganMilitia]

My name is Dave and I am very new to the AR-15 community. I want to build one myself, but I really need to soak up some wisdom first and I figured this is the best place!

...So here come the questions!

1. The Barrett M468 first got me interested in the 6.8mm caliber, and I began looking for complete rifles. This is when the POF P-415 (http://www.pof-usa.com/6-8np3/P-415-14- ... LENGTH.htm) really caught my attention. POF claims to have a newly-designed system that requires no lube and only basic cleaning with a dry cloth after each firing session. Here is some additional info if you are unfamiliar with what I'm referring to:
http://www.pof-usa.com/GW_POF_P415_%5B1%5D.pdf <-- The first page of this one says it all
http://www.pof-usa.com/POF416.pdf
So then my first question is this: Is this for real? I can cycle thousands of rounds through this gun and only clean the barrel after each range session?

2. Next question: Is this hefty price tag for the POF upper ($1475.00) worth it?

3. If I choose the POF upper, should I just get the complete rifle package?

4. If I choose the POF upper, can I switch out the muzzle break for a PWS FSC30, or is it permanently attached?

5. I hear a lot of people talking about AR Performance Xtreme uppers.. Looks like a great deal, but the price almost seems too good to be true... The upper comes with the 16" chrome-lined 11.25 twist barrel with 5R rifling, right?

6. I'm in Colorado Springs and I see that AR Performance has an address in Pueblo West. Is there a storefront or showroom I could visit and get my hands on one?

Now some more general questions:

1. Do I have to get a lower receiver that says "6.8" on the side? I thought the .223 lower was exactly the same as the 6.8 lower, right?

2. If there isn't a difference, then I should just be able to put the POF or Xtreme upper on any lower and it should work just fine, right?

3. I've seen a lot of different brands of lower receivers and they all look exactly the same to me (I realize that many of them are made by the same company). What makes one lower different from the next? (and are there any for sale that I don't have to wait 14 weeks for?)

4. I would kind of like to have a left-side charging handle instead of the traditional charging handle that pulls straight back into your face.. Is this something I can change later, or do I need to buy a special upper receiver to accommodate it? If so, who makes them?

Okay, I think that's all I have for now... :wink: This is a great opportunity for all of you to share your advice, opinions, and ideas with someone who is new to the AR-15 world, so please, don't hold back! Thank you all in advance!

-Dave (MichiganMilitia)
(Btw if you were wondering about my name, even though I am currently in Colorado, I used to live in Michigan and I am very loyal to such a fine state for hunting! )

 

[ArtFWTx]

My name is Dave and I am very new to the AR-15 community. I want to build one myself, but I really need to soak up some wisdom first and I figured this is the best place!

...So here come the questions!

1. The Barrett M468 first got me interested in the 6.8mm caliber, and I began looking for complete rifles. This is when the POF P-415 (http://www.pof-usa.com/6-8np3/P-415-14- ... LENGTH.htm) really caught my attention. POF claims to have a newly-designed system that requires no lube and only basic cleaning with a dry cloth after each firing session. Here is some additional info if you are unfamiliar with what I'm referring to:
http://www.pof-usa.com/GW_POF_P415_%5B1%5D.pdf <-- The first page of this one says it all
http://www.pof-usa.com/POF416.pdf
So then my first question is this: Is this for real? I can cycle thousands of rounds through this gun and only clean the barrel after each range session? Advertising aside, I'd say the POF requires "less" maintenance. There was a review a year or two ago where the POF can run dry, but the testers felt some lube was better than none. POF being a piston system versus a direct impingement system runs cleaner because hot gases tapped from the barrel are not directly blown back into the receiver like a normal AR which is a direct gas impingement system. Regular AR's are more reliable when they are run "wet" with oil on the bolt carrier assembly.

2. Next question: Is this hefty price tag for the POF upper ($1475.00) worth it? This depends on your personal wants and needs. POF's offer lots of features like the piston system they're known for, premium barrels, and some high tech coatings. You can buy a similar regular direct impingement upper like say a Noveske or top line upper from AR15Performance or Titan Armory for less and they will perform similarly, leaving you money for other accessories like mags, optics, and ammo. Without going into the piston versus direct impingement debate, read up on them and make up your own mind. Some of our industry experts say that unless you shoot over 2000 rounds a month, a regular direct impingement AR will serve your purposes.

3. If I choose the POF upper, should I just get the complete rifle package? If you want to, there's nothing wrong with that. However there are many who mate an upper from one brand with a lower of another brand and there's no difference. POF's billet lowers are very nice though. You can save a little money buy purchasing uppers and lowers separately. Firearms manufactures pay a federal excise tax on complete firearms, which obviously is passed on to the consumer.

4. If I choose the POF upper, can I switch out the muzzle break for a PWS FSC30, or is it permanently attached? It depends on the barrel length and the threading they use. If it's a 14.5 barrel and you're not registering it with the ATF as a short barrel rifle, the suppressor will be permanently attached to go along with the law requiring a minimum 16" barrel. If it's a 16 inch or longer barrel and you live in an area where you can have a flash suppressor, it will be removable. 5/8x24 is the standard 6.8 barrel threads. If POF uses these threads you can switch muzzle attachments.

5. I hear a lot of people talking about AR Performance Xtreme uppers.. Looks like a great deal, but the price almost seems too good to be true... The upper comes with the 16" chrome-lined 11.25 twist barrel with 5R rifling, right? This is arguably the best 6.8 upper being made, and is amazing performance for the price. The owners are on this site, and wanted to bring a true high performance 6.8 upper to enthusiasts at obtainable price levels for most serious shooters. Look long and hard at these before spending $$ on POF. POF makes good gear, but the performance of the 68Xtreme for the price is too good to pass up. You can buy nice optics with the savings between the two.

6. I'm in Colorado Springs and I see that AR Performance has an address in Pueblo West. Is there a storefront or showroom I could visit and get my hands on one?Ask Constructor, he's the owner of AR15Performance and apparently your neighbor. I don't think he's set up for retail though. Plus they're just now ramping up production. You can wait and hear the great reviews from the first 300 customers though, then make up your mind and get in line.

Now some more general questions:

1. Do I have to get a lower receiver that says "6.8" on the side? I thought the .223 lower was exactly the same as the 6.8 lower, right? AR15 lowers are the same dimensions. There are many 6.8's uppers riding on 5.56 lowers. Then again, you can buy 6.8 marked lowers from Stag, RRA, CMMG, maybe DPMS and others if you look around. Many lowers now days are marked "Multi caliber" or something similar since there are so many different calibers available.

2. If there isn't a difference, then I should just be able to put the POF or Xtreme upper on any lower and it should work just fine, right? Exactly.

3. I've seen a lot of different brands of lower receivers and they all look exactly the same to me (I realize that many of them are made by the same company). What makes one lower different from the next? (and are there any for sale that I don't have to wait 14 weeks for?) There are only 4 main manufacturers of the forgings for the entire industry. http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=12&t=318113 . To find some in stock, keep an eye on the forums. Denny's GTS (above), Spike's Tactical (above), Ranier Arms, Military Gun Supply, and others routinely have lowers and everything else AR coming and going.

4. I would kind of like to have a left-side charging handle instead of the traditional charging handle that pulls straight back into your face.. Is this something I can change later, or do I need to buy a special upper receiver to accommodate it? If so, who makes them? Yes there is a side charging handle upper. I can't remember the brand, but Addax Tactical carries them. Look at them long and hard before buying because they do cost more.

Okay, I think that's all I have for now... :wink: This is a great opportunity for all of you to share your advice, opinions, and ideas with someone who is new to the AR-15 world, so please, don't hold back! Thank you all in advance!

-Dave (MichiganMilitia)
(Btw if you were wondering about my name, even though I am currently in Colorado, I used to live in Michigan and I am very loyal to such a fine state for hunting! )

 

[leto]

and that is why this sight is so nice.

great answers Art.

 

[MichiganMilitia]

3. If I choose the POF upper, should I just get the complete rifle package? If you want to, there's nothing wrong with that. However there are many who mate an upper from one brand with a lower of another brand and there's no difference. POF's billet lowers are very nice though. You can save a little money buy purchasing uppers and lowers separately. Firearms manufactures pay a federal excise tax on complete firearms, which obviously is passed on to the consumer.

Okay, I see that I can get a POF lower for $325. I've seen other lowers for half that price. What's the real difference between the $220 lower from MEGA (seen here: http://www.carricozarmory.com/lowers.htm it's the second one from the top) and a $325 lower from POF? They are both made by the same company right? So why the $100 price hike?

Thanks so much for your very informative answers! :shock: :shock: I am humbled in your presence

 

[tbready]

The price hike is from everyone going absolutely apeshit and buying everything in a frenzy because everyone is afraid their 2nd amendment rights are going to be attacked. Now manufacturers cant keep up, and everyone is price gouging all of us. Im waiting till this stupid craze is over to build my 3rd one (most likely an extreme). It was much easier to build one before the election. 8)

 

[MichiganMilitia]

The price hike is from everyone going absolutely apeshit and buying everything in a frenzy because everyone is afraid their 2nd amendment rights are going to be attacked. Now manufacturers cant keep up, and everyone is price gouging all of us. Im waiting till this stupid craze is over to build my 3rd one (most likely an extreme). It was much easier to build one before the election. 8)

Well, I know why the prices skyrocketed and nobody can keep ammo on their shelves, but I was really asking why was there such a huge price difference between two lowers made by the same company??

And are you suggesting that I should wait to build my AR? And how long? Do you see prices dropping anytime soon on ammo and parts?

 

[ArtFWTx]

The POF you pointed out is a billet machined lower, and the MEGA is a forged lower. Two manufacturing methods to make the similar parts. Billet can be more expensive and may have custom touches like sharp cuts around the reinforcements, and integral trigger guards. Forging is the MILSPEC method of manufacture for AR receivers, and is the most common and can be more economical. Function and performance is pretty much the same.

Check out Denny's billet receivers if you like that custom look : http://global-tactical.com/dennysgunsbi ... ver-1.aspx

Other companies like LaRue use billet also.

You can also find customized lowers with laser engraving from Spike's Tactical (I own two of these), and Anvil Arms.

Sun Devil receivers are used often in custom builds as well. Check them out also.

 

[tbready]

The price hike is from everyone going absolutely apeshit and buying everything in a frenzy because everyone is afraid their 2nd amendment rights are going to be attacked. Now manufacturers cant keep up, and everyone is price gouging all of us. Im waiting till this stupid craze is over to build my 3rd one (most likely an extreme). It was much easier to build one before the election. 8)

Well, I know why the prices skyrocketed and nobody can keep ammo on their shelves, but I was really asking why was there such a huge price difference between two lowers made by the same company??

And are you suggesting that I should wait to build my AR? And how long? Do you see prices dropping anytime soon on ammo and parts?

Prices may not change much but the availability of everything will probably get better. Ammo is always a bitch to find so if you find some buy it all. :lol:

 

[ArtFWTx]

Prices may not change much but the availability of everything will probably get better. Ammo is always a bitch to find so if you find some buy it all. :lol:

Now we know who's buying all the ammo. :roll:

 

[tbready]

I've been unemployed for the past month. The last thing on my list right now is ammo. Thank goodness for the small stockpile i do have. :lol:

 

[MichiganMilitia]

I've been unemployed for the past month. The last thing on my list right now is ammo. Thank goodness for the small stockpile i do have. :lol:

How many thousands of rounds are in your "small stockpile"??? :lol:

 

[ArtFWTx]

and that is why this sight is so nice.

great answers Art.

Thanks! This is a great forum. The best thing is others like yourself would have answered the questions also. I just got here first.

 

[MichiganMilitia]

Thanks so much for all the help so far guys!

Another question about buying lowers/uppers:

I don't really care about what trigger I have, and the internal parts don't make much of a difference to me as long as it works the same, so would I be better off to buy a completed upper/lower receiver, or buy a stripped lower and each of the components individually? This seems pretty expensive!

 

[ArtFWTx]

Do the math, which you are probably doing already. Where the stripped lower comes in handy is you may save a little on assembly, not much though as lowers are easy to put together with a few common inexpensive tools. Real issues come in if you want custom stocks, and triggers and are trying to avoid having a lot of duplication of parts. If you find an assembled lower with the parts in it you want go ahead and get it if the numbers look good to you. If you were going to a certain custom stock, custom trigger, custom handgrip, heavier buffer and spring (which you may need) then to avoid duplicating parts you could order the individual components separately and have exactly what you want.

You do realize you'll end up with 2-3 rifles by the time you're done with this don't you? It's called BRD, formerly known as Black Rifle Disease. :lol:

 

[marinesg1012]

All of the adivice given so far has been spot on, the stripped lowers are a deal when you know exactly what you want with grips,stock,and trigger, but I usually buy the complete and go from there.... I have a ton of extra parts laying around but its like your truck.... your always going to keep the factory crap even if you will never use it again... just to have on hand in case...

 

[BLACK LION]

My name is Dave and I am very new to the AR-15 community. I want to build one myself, but I really need to soak up some wisdom first and I figured this is the best place!Definately the place to be

...So here come the questions!

1. The Barrett M468 first got me interested in the 6.8mm caliber, and I began looking for complete rifles. This is when the POF P-415 (http://www.pof-usa.com/6-8np3/P-415-14- ... LENGTH.htm) really caught my attention. POF claims to have a newly-designed system that requires no lube and only basic cleaning with a dry cloth after each firing session. Here is some additional info if you are unfamiliar with what I'm referring to:
http://www.pof-usa.com/GW_POF_P415_%5B1%5D.pdf <-- The first page of this one says it all
http://www.pof-usa.com/POF416.pdf
So then my first question is this: Is this for real? I can cycle thousands of rounds through this gun and only clean the barrel after each range session?

2. Next question: Is this hefty price tag for the POF upper ($1475.00) worth it?

3. If I choose the POF upper, should I just get the complete rifle package?

4. If I choose the POF upper, can I switch out the muzzle break for a PWS FSC30, or is it permanently attached?It should not be permanently attached unless you live in kommifornia and the barrel is under 16"...other than that is should be screwed on with some loc-tite, so removing it should be no problem

5. I hear a lot of people talking about AR Performance Xtreme uppers.. Looks like a great deal, but the price almost seems too good to be true... The upper comes with the 16" chrome-lined 11.25 twist barrel with 5R rifling, right?the basic upper does, yes...however he has a couple more comprehensive offerings including a piston upper

6. I'm in Colorado Springs and I see that AR Performance has an address in Pueblo West. Is there a storefront or showroom I could visit and get my hands on one?Ask Constructor as I am sure there is some way to accomodate things although I dont think there is a ''SHOWROOM'' persay

Now some more general questions:

1. Do I have to get a lower receiver that says "6.8" on the side? I thought the .223 lower was exactly the same as the 6.8 lower, right?No you dont need a specific 6.8 marked lower... yes the standard ar15 lower will accept multiple calibers including 6.8/6.5g/7.62x39 ....also they all use the same lower internals the only thing different is the mag. I use multi-cal marked lowers , which most lower manufacturers make. the difference in internal parts between the calibers begind in the upper receiver with the bolt and barrel

2. If there isn't a difference, then I should just be able to put the POF or Xtreme upper on any lower and it should work just fine, right? pretty much aside from an ar10 lower

3. I've seen a lot of different brands of lower receivers and they all look exactly the same to me (I realize that many of them are made by the same company). What makes one lower different from the next? (and are there any for sale that I don't have to wait 14 weeks for?)You only really get into differences when you compare a forged lower to a billet lower...IMO and from manufacturer and end user feedback the billet is for the most part stronger and more tolerable...it can also be serviced after a catastrophic failure whereas a forged component may need to be scrapped alltogether...... as far as availability, search google and dont be shy about selecting the "notify me please option" as you will get one faster this way... try colemantyler.com, those guys are a+ and were ablt to get me an out of stock lower in a week and this was in jan 09

4. I would kind of like to have a left-side charging handle instead of the traditional charging handle that pulls straight back into your face.. Is this something I can change later, or do I need to buy a special upper receiver to accommodate it? If so, who makes them?Ameetec makes one thats rather pricey at 375.00.... gunaccessories.com has one for 225.00...search google for the best price and what not

Okay, I think that's all I have for now... :wink: This is a great opportunity for all of you to share your advice, opinions, and ideas with someone who is new to the AR-15 world, so please, don't hold back! Thank you all in advance!

-Dave (MichiganMilitia)
(Btw if you were wondering about my name, even though I am currently in Colorado, I used to live in Michigan and I am very loyal to such a fine state for hunting! )