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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a friend who is wanting to build a rifle for subsonic hunting. He is trying to decide between these two calibers. Can y'all help him with some info on both? Thanks.
 

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I have a friend who is wanting to build a rifle for subsonic hunting. He is trying to decide between these two calibers. Can y'all help him with some info on both? Thanks.
Bigger bullet going 1050fps beats smaller bullet going 1050fps all day in the energy department; that's just math. Using that measurable only, the .458 SOCOM is the way to go.
 

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I have a friend who is wanting to build a rifle for subsonic hunting. He is trying to decide between these two calibers. Can y'all help him with some info on both? Thanks.
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If your friend is dead set on Hunting subsonic, then greater bullet weight should probably be most important in the choice.
Given the two calibers for selection, I would pick 458 Socom...
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However, I would not choose to hunt anything subsonic. There are better caliber choices for hunting AND use of a suppressor - if legal in his state.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Bigger bullet going 1050fps beats smaller bullet going 1050fps all day in the energy department; that's just math. Using that measurable only, the .458 SOCOM is the way to go.
Even with the new 175gr bullets?
 

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Bigger bullet going 1050fps beats smaller bullet going 1050fps all day in the energy department; that's just math. Using that measurable only, the .458 SOCOM is the way to go.
Fair, but having shot both (supersonic only though), there is something to be said for capacity and controlability of the smaller round. I am not a fan personally of subsonic hunting ammo so the big hole caused by the 458 has to mean something.
 

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Even with the new 175gr bullets?
Our official stance on subsonic hunting is that it should be approached like Archery. Short distances, good shot placement, and you will more than likely have to track your target. Unofficially, 50 yards is about the furthest I would subsonic hunt. That being said, your OP said "subsonic hunting", so I assumed you meant subsonic only. The 175 grain copper expanding 6.8/.277 bullet is the best the 6.8/.277 has to offer in this realm.

Now, if you're going to shoot/hunt supersonic and subsonic, lots of other factors come into play.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Our official stance on subsonic hunting is that it should be approached like Archery. Short distances, good shot placement, and you will more than likely have to track your target. Unofficially, 50 yards is about the furthest I would subsonic hunt. That being said, your OP said "subsonic hunting", so I assumed you meant subsonic only. The 175 grain copper expanding 6.8/.277 bullet is the best the 6.8/.277 has to offer in this realm.

Now, if you're going to shoot/hunt supersonic and subsonic, lots of other factors come into play.
Sounds good. Let's go down that road. I think he's really liking the Wolverine. So what if he wants to hunt both. Super/Sub?
 

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Sounds good. Let's go down that road. I think he's really liking the Wolverine. So what if he wants to hunt both. Super/Sub?
What's he hunting?
Most common range he sees potential shots?
What's the terrain/landscape?
What other qualities of either cartridge does he like/see as a benefit?

I always suggest one do a pros/cons list for things like this. I won't make a blanket WLV is best option statement without knowing all the criteria.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
He will be hunting suppressed out to 150 yards and subsonic out to 60ish.
 

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Bigger bullet going 1050fps beats smaller bullet going 1050fps all day in the energy department; that's just math. Using that measurable only, the .458 SOCOM is the way to go.
+10. And,with the bigger bullet expansion, almost becomes a non-issue as far as knock down energy and capability is concerned. Like 9mm vs 4ACP. 9mm goes faster but you need expansion for knock down effectiveness. With a 45ACP, it may be going slow and it may be a Ball bullet but, as my Father always said about the 45 in WWII, "if you hit someone in the hand with it, he will go down."
 

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Subs are rainbows past 80 yrds they drop really fast he will need some good dope and be quick on the rangefinder if he wants to have much success at up to 150yrds. My only sub experience has been taking crop permit summer does with my blackout and like mark stated it's extended archery between 50- 125 yrds there's prob over 15" of drop( think of shooting your 45acp at the 100yrd gong at the range), you will shoot a butt ton of bullets getting your ranges doped out . A good expanding bullet that will pass through target to leave a bloodtrail is a must unless relying on head shots. There's little impact trauma to shock deer into drt just wound channel blood loss for kill - broadside dbl lung shots for a 80-100 yrd track is the general for a good shot on Lil 100-130lb nc does. I would not sub hunt hogs. Head shots will do the trick on piggies but body shots and neck shots are way too marginal for my taste too much chance of no passthroughs with no blood trail or the fat layer causing exit to not bleed as much , and what's the fun of hog hunting if running shots have little chance of being clean ethical kills. Despite the nifty factor of subs, supers supressed hunting is much more effective especially if trying for multiple kills. Subs disturb game by the huge smack as bullet whacks into meat even if they don't hear the action cycling of the shot itself. Supressed supers give better follow up shots, less Kentucky windage, and supressed confuses the heck out of game as to direction shot came from. I only sub hunt over some beans where I'm being polite to close neighbors and trying to minimize noise and keep the yuppies oblivious. I believe Texas lawman tried subs in either 458 or 450bm a couple years ago and was very unimpressed with results on pigs and went back to supers in 6.8 for hog hunting.

I'm wanting to try marks copper sub bullets sometime in the future but too many projects cooking atm to buy a truckload of projectile at 1$ each - have a 12.5" wolverine axis boltgun sub barrel otw to make a sneaky quiet load for!! I've found the wolverine much easier to develop accurate sub loads for than the blkout I had a 10.5ss and a 12.5" blued 7 twist wolverines both shot well with 130 and 150grn subs but I havnt tried the heavy expanding subs yet or shot any game.
 

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Hunting past 50 yards with subs IMO is just unethical you owe it to the animal and anyone that tells you different is an idiot!!!!
 

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Hunting past 50 yards with subs IMO is just unethical you owe it to the animal and anyone that tells you different is an idiot!!!!
^^^^^^^^^^^ this just because you can do it don't mean you should. our responsibilities as hunters is to take game ethically and humanly
 

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I have a friend who is wanting to build a rifle for subsonic hunting. He is trying to decide between these two calibers. Can y'all help him with some info on both? Thanks.
Depends a lot on what you're hunting. The .45 bullet is going to have a rainbow like trajectory at that speed. Hunting something like feral hogs, I would not expect the .45 to be great. There are plenty of rounds with a lot more power than it has that don't work well on hogs.

I would pick the Wolverine because even with a subsonic barrel twist, you can still run supersonic ammo, which is what I'd use for hunting. More versatile, more accurate, less recoil, less expensive to shoot.
 

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I am sitting on my deck. Currently there is a doe at less that 30 yds. I could kill her with my HK USP 45 with a Delta point red dot suppressed. Is that a normal shot no. But with my Osprey and PVS-14 and a IR laser doable. Will not make a loud noise. But do not like subsonic unless you are an operator killing bad guys.
 

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Guys, he can correct me if I'm wrong, but when addressing Marks question, I think the OP meant suppressed supersonic out to 150 yards and suppressed subsonic out to 60 yards. Mark was asking for both of criteria, so I think the OP just left off the supersonic in his response.

He will be hunting suppressed out to 150 yards and subsonic out to 60ish.
 

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I am sitting on my deck. Currently there is a doe at less that 30 yds. I could kill her with my HK USP 45 with a Delta point red dot suppressed. Is that a normal shot no. But with my Osprey and PVS-14 and a IR laser doable. Will not make a loud noise. But do not like subsonic unless you are an operator killing bad guys.
So for bad humans let it rip, but animals no? LOL.

Not saying I disagree, just gave me a chuckle as this is an interesting world with all sorts of moral ambiguities.

I guess I just need to find me a deer with a nasty reputation that deserves it.

I tell you, he had it coming, that's the last time he ever messes with my crops!!!

Given that, I guess I could always hunt coyotes, the scourge and terrorists of nature....
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Guys, he can correct me if I'm wrong, but when addressing Marks question, I think the OP meant suppressed supersonic out to 150 yards and suppressed subsonic out to 60 yards. Mark was asking for both of criteria, so I think the OP just left off the supersonic in his response.
This is correct. From what I've read here and for what he is wanting to do he will only be hunting with subsonic ammo at fifty yards or less. Basically just extended archery range hunting. Thanks for all the input. It looks like he's going with the Wolverine.
 
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