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And sinkers, so fishing is no longer safe either.

FJB.

Let's Go Brandon!
 
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Every state I have hunted in uses the exact same pictures of an x-rayed animal with bullet fragments. It is long been known that photo was staged by an anti-hunter. All of our hunting and two 2A civil rights organizations have been stone silent on this. There has never been any real proof from real scientists lead is an issue from hunters.
 

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Every state I have hunted in uses the exact same pictures of an x-rayed animal with bullet fragments. It is long been known that photo was staged by an anti-hunter. All of our hunting and two 2A civil rights organizations have been stone silent on this. There has never been any real proof from real scientists lead is an issue from hunters.
I say false. There's been plenty of real research around the California condor recovery program and non-lead ammo NGOs (and those are by huntin' folks not anti-s). I'd love to see the evidence anti-hunters staged lead fragment photos. Regardless, less lead on the landscape is a good thing. Plenty of non-lead ammo out there. Works fabulous, very accurate. I've used it in 6.8, .25, .30-06.
 

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I'm no expert but IMO worrying about the amount of lead hunters on Fed land generate is like worrying about someone peeing in the ocean. YMMV

(I probably ate too much lead paint peelings as a kid)
 

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I say false. There's been plenty of real research around the California condor recovery program and non-lead ammo NGOs (and those are by huntin' folks not anti-s). I'd love to see the evidence anti-hunters staged lead fragment photos. Regardless, less lead on the landscape is a good thing. Plenty of non-lead ammo out there. Works fabulous, very accurate. I've used it in 6.8, .25, .30-06.
You say false because you don’t feel you want to believe facts? If you follow the actual science from real scientists, not NGOs or Kalifornia government paid “scientist” with an agenda, the lead isotopes that were harming California condors came from the lead paint on fire lookout towers, NOT lead ammunition. If you truly, “would love to see the evidence” it is not hard to find.

Don’t hold strong opinions about things you do not understand.
 

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And of course, let's not neglect to consider the most basic of common sense facts. Lead is a natural element, mined from the earth. It's not a man-made chemically formulated pathogen.
 

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I'm no expert but IMO worrying about the amount of lead hunters on Fed land generate is like worrying about someone peeing in the ocean. YMMV

(I probably ate too much lead paint peelings as a kid)
Yeah.......That's not a good analogy to use. When I was still flying in the Gulf of Mexico, you could loose your job if you were caught peeing in the Gulf. The Environmental fanatics claimed that we were polluting the Gulf by peeing off the platforms. When I was getting a Masters in Environmental Science, even our ultra liberal professor had a catch phrase pertaining to contaminants. "The solution to pollution is dilution." I don't think a few thousand people peeing in the Gulf of Mexico have any chance of causing any pollution problems, but there we were.
 
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You say false because you don’t feel you want to believe facts? If you follow the actual science from real scientists, not NGOs or Kalifornia government paid “scientist” with an agenda, the lead isotopes that were harming California condors came from the lead paint on fire lookout towers, NOT lead ammunition. If you truly, “would love to see the evidence” it is not hard to find.

Don’t hold strong opinions about things you do not understand.
Nope, I like believing in facts. And I do understand these things. If condors stopped dying from lead poisoning when lead paint was phased out, I would be more likely to believe that was the cause, but it's still happening, and the cause is believed to be ammo. Much of the research is probably publicly funded, yes, but not all by the state. Not a reason for a categorical rejection of that info. The folks at this NGO huntingwithnonlead.org that you are lumping in with all the anti-hunting groups are great advocates for hunting and put on great hands-on demonstrations with non-lead ammo. Check 'em out if they're in your neighborhood. I'm not for banning lead ammo, but lead is toxic stuff, natural element or not, and there are places it's better off not used.
 

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Nope, I like believing in facts. And I do understand these things. If condors stopped dying from lead poisoning when lead paint was phased out, I would be more likely to believe that was the cause, but it's still happening, and the cause is believed to be ammo. Much of the research is probably publicly funded, yes, but not all by the state. Not a reason for a categorical rejection of that info. The folks at this NGO huntingwithnonlead.org that you are lumping in with all the anti-hunting groups are great advocates for hunting and put on great hands-on demonstrations with non-lead ammo. Check 'em out if they're in your neighborhood. I'm not for banning lead ammo, but lead is toxic stuff, natural element or not, and there are places it's better off not used.
So you’re saying, an anti-hunting NGO with an agenda (it’s very name states it’s agenda!) of using non-lead ammo has no agenda in using non-lead ammo? Okay…

Banning lead paint didn’t cause it to suddenly and magically disappear from buildings. The Kalifornia government (with an agenda against using all ammunition) recommends against removing existing lead paint.

I understand it is very inconvenient to actually follow real science. Anti-hunters often say lead bullet fragments are to blame for the lead poisoning in Kalifornia condors. It is never been backed up with facts. Lead bullet fragments are noticeably absent in blood samples, the digestive track and droppings of the birds and of their young on the nest. However, lead paint chips are found. The photos used by most departments of fish and games showing an x-rayed carcass filled with lead fragments was admittedly staged by an anti-hunter. Lead free hunting zones actually show an increase in lead levels in condors. This is despite virtually 100% compliance by hunters using non-lead ammo. The antis often take a cue from the German Socialist Democrats, Repeat a lie often enough and it becomes the truth.

 

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How true. Great analogy.
I'm no expert but IMO worrying about the amount of lead hunters on Fed land generate is like worrying about someone peeing in the ocean. YMMV

(I probably ate too much lead paint peelings as a kid)
So you’re saying, an anti-hunting NGO with an agenda (it’s very name states it’s agenda!) of using non-lead ammo has no agenda in using non-lead ammo? Okay…

Banning lead paint didn’t cause it to suddenly and magically disappear from buildings. The Kalifornia government (with an agenda against using all ammunition) recommends against removing existing lead paint.

I understand it is very inconvenient to actually follow real science. Anti-hunters often say lead bullet fragments are to blame for the lead poisoning in Kalifornia condors. It is never been backed up with facts. Lead bullet fragments are noticeably absent in blood samples, the digestive track and droppings of the birds and of their young on the nest. However, lead paint chips are found. The photos used by most departments of fish and games showing an x-rayed carcass filled with lead fragments was admittedly staged by an anti-hunter. Lead free hunting zones actually show an increase in lead levels in condors. This is despite virtually 100% compliance by hunters using non-lead ammo. The antis often take a cue from the German Socialist Democrats, Repeat a lie often enough and it becomes the truth.

OK, well I don't appreciate the spin, but overall appreciate the conversation. Thank you for the link.
 

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Sorry, Didn't finish...how many lead pellets did we consume eating fowl growing up, a few, not much. how much crap did we eat as a kid in the yard growing up? Have a picture of me maybe 2yrs old eating dirt. I'm still here.

..but you are arguing with strangers on the internet, so.... LOL. Seriously, though, you can't say you weren't affected. What if your potential was 15% higher?

Arsenic is natural. Mercury is natural. Lead is natural. All of them occur naturally, but that doesn't mean we should mine it and spread it around. Natural does not mean safe. Natural does not mean we want to have it entering our food web in a greater supply. I almost bought property until I found lead shot in the soil, and they THEN disclosed that it was a private skeet range at one time. I didn't buy it because I garden, and I didn't want my kids eating stuff from that soil. Would you?

Now, I am NOT for banning lead cored hunting ammo (or solid lead rifle/handgun rounds). I just don't think it is a bad idea to switch to non-lead, either. I've started transitioning to non-lead hunting rounds BY choice for the safety of my kids. Why not? It certainly isn't worse for them. Even a chance of keeping my family healthy is worth an extra dollar per round to me. Maybe it isn't to everyone, and THEY have to live with that. Not me.

My concern is about the side effects of making PRACTICE ammo more expensive if they slippery-slope into banning all lead ammo everywhere. I'll fight against it for THAT reason. I kinda agree with it for hunting. Nope, I don't know how to reconcile those two things into one policy......lol.
 
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