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Full auto lower?

6.7K views 13 replies 7 participants last post by  mrosbro  
#1 · (Edited)
I finally picked up my new lower today. I got a Spikes Tactical, and first- let me say, Damn this thing is nice! The finish is better than any I've ever had, and much better than most of em that I've seen lately, plus the guts went into it like they were going back home, instead of needing coaxing. I had to spend a little more than I would have liked to, but it seems worth it.

I've had a couple of ARs in the past (it's been a few years) but I haven't built em etc, and I've never noticed this on my other ones, so this may be a dumb question... But, should my lower have a full auto option? The safety selector has "safe" (shows a bullet with the "no" sign on it), "fire"(shows 1 bullet) and another option that shows multiple bullets (that's full auto... isn't it?) It also has an area machined out between the trigger group and the grip area (I think it's for the full auto trigger group) that the other two lowers that I compared it to didn't have. I can try to get a pic or 2 up if it'll help. I was under the impression that the lower receiver was the difference in semi vs. full auto. I'm wondering if I got something I shouldn't have. Or is the trigger group the big difference? I asked the guy at the store, and he said I'd be fine. But I'm not totally convinced. This thing is a great bit of kit, but it's going to be used for predator control (hunting as well)and I don't want a savvy customer or FWP officer to see it and have a fit or something. What do you guys think, am I ok with this thing?

Thanx
Cody
 
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#2 ·
Without a full auto sear you're good to go.
 
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#3 ·
Most lowers are machined out to full auto dimensions. The trigger group and cutout of the lower is what allows for full auto.

With that being said you cannot make it full auto without a whole mess of trouble from the ATF.

You should be fine with the lower you have now.
 
#4 ·
As long as you don't have full auto trigger group, and auto sear, you should be all set. Just because the lower receiver has the bullet pictogram showing the multiple bullets, it doesn't mean anything.
 
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#5 · (Edited)
i will inject some humor since the question has been answered.every time i see a Colt lower that has the sear block and pin hole filled ( by the factory) on factory semi only lowers i have to do a double take.i know that this is the way they come,but i have to open them up anyway.i snicker at myself every time i do it. mostly at gun shows.
first pic is an m16. second pic is a colt lower with sear block removed....yours should look very similar.... third is the one that i snicker at myself about.this keeps any full auto parts from being added... i hope this helps a little... glamour pic of my collection...
 
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#6 ·
Thanx guys. I figured that was the case, but since it's a work gun first and a toy second, I just wanted to be sure.

mrosbro, those are some good lookin sticks. I was looking at the photo sticky yesterday and had to turn off the computer... was worried that the drool might short out the key board! Plus I've still got a little less than 2 weeks to wait till my new Bison arrives, and it's just killing me. This will be my first "nice" AR, and seeing pimped-out rigs like yours is making the time DRAGGGGGGGGG on!
Thanx again guys
Cody
 
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#9 ·
Mrosbro- thanx for posting that. I'm gonna put in an order with them tomorrow morning, my mom just beat a round of breast cancer, and one of my best friends moms is in the midst of fighting it. I'd love to see more of these show up.
Cody
 
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#11 · (Edited)
Using a lower that is marked for full auto is legal and doesn't inherently make it a machinegun. Just make sure you don't drill an auto sear hole, that would classify it as a machine gun. Same as drilling the pivot hole in an MP5 receiver makes it a machinegun.

I know this isn't the popular answer, but according to the Federal Firearms Regulation book ( http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-4.pdf ), you cannot use any unmodified M16/full auto fire control parts (including full auto bolt) in a semi auto AR15.

I know that contradicts the letter given to Colt that tap danced all around answering the question that everybody and their brother has bookmarked in their computer, but a determination letter does NOT change or overturn the actual law.

Here is the law as it is written and can be found in the ATF.gov link above if you want to look for it.

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And here is the letter that everyone has probably seen by now.
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#12 ·
thanks for the info John.i know this is a question up for interpritation by the ATFE but i cannot figure out why,if we are not supposed to use a "auto" bolt carrier,then why do so many manufactures put them in their semi rifles and uppers? i am just asking for the sake of asking. i know you can't and won't speak for the agency.just curious as i have four semi carriers and one auto. my rifles cannot shoot automatic but does this one carrier cause me a problem?
 
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#13 ·
OK, here's what little I know about it.

Up until 1986, people could build machineguns and could use any combination parts to do so (semi parts and/or auto parst via lightning links, DIAS, or by registering the lower with auto sear hole like a regular M16) and a lot of standards changed when civilians could no longer build machineguns when it was signed into law.

This was one of the things that had that Olefson fellow in so much hot water.

His Olympic Arms rifle was made prior to the law changing, and some of his parts (er combination of parts) alone would not act as full auto, but after the law changed, those parts were voluntarally recalled to comply with the new standards, although he either was never notified directly, was unable to made contact, or for whatever reason, never changed over to what we now would consider regular semi auto AR15 fire control parts.

And when his rifle malfunctioned, when it was checked by ATF, they found "contraband parts" in it (as laid out in the scan I provided above), even though at the time the gun was built, was legal and wouldn't fire automatically in their working order.

Even installing a full auto selector lever, or M16 disconnect won't allow full auto fire by itself.

Which is another point altogether that some people try to argue and say a full auto M16 carrier won't make the gun fire automatically. They're correct, it won't. But neither do most of the other M16 parts by themselves and you don't see a lot of people installing other M16 parts in their guns whether they'll allow full auto fire or not.

I'm not wanting to open a can of worms (and this topic usually does), but the law is worded very specifically (see above). no unaltered M16 parts in an AR (including carriers).

If anyone doesn't like it, don't shoot the messenger, contact your congressman/congresswoman to change it. I can't do anything about it either and am stuck with it just like everyone else. But the law is very specific about what parts cannot be installed in an AR15.
 
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#14 ·
thanks for the info.that does clear up quite a bit, for me anyway. i guess i will have my wifes uncle mill a bit off of my carrier. at least so it is a semi profile.thanks again John...see ya on the boards....Dave
 
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