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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
i always found it useful to have a plan b, here is an option

just saw there is already a fallback so have removed the url, but won't be joining that one either
 

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Not me. I don't want any part of it.
 

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things seem to be getting interesting around here lately--- I think I'll stay :a32:









some colors run, fade or blur; others stay bright and true
 

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Speak Engrish already!!!
Fallback ?? I thought Marines about face and attack ......
What is this fwiw?
 

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There is no back anything. I think he means taking a breather or perhaps a place to take a break.
This forum needs improvements but it continues to be the best forum in so many subjects and areas.
There is only one way... that is forward!
These vertical scope folks better wake up too.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Speak Engrish already!!!
Fallback ?? I thought Marines about face and attack ......
What is this fwiw?
when the mess began, i started a forum as a place to go until things got worked out. saw that MDWS already had one in place and didn't want anyone to assume i was being presumptive and would try to lure membership to a new place,,,so i deleted the url of the place i set up.

nothing to see here, move along
 

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when the mess began, i started a forum as a place to go until things got worked out. saw that MDWS already had one in place and didn't want anyone to assume i was being presumptive and would try to lure membership to a new place,,,so i deleted the url of the place i set up.

nothing to see here, move along
I think folks should see the other forum as "another" forum. There's been lots of comments made about intentions, etc. which again we let slide off our back because we know why we started it and people have a right to their opinions. If you actually visit and watch there is no commercializing, no profit center, and no focus on anything but the advancement of the 6.8SPCII. No reason why folks can't belong to both. The way things have been going around here it made sense to break off with something that focuses on the 6.8 SPCII like everyone wanted, with a few more restrictions on behavior (professionalism and focus on comroderie and avancing the 6.8 SPCII in the marketplace without drama and cartridge wars), with a bigger menu of industry folks that support the cartridge without having to pay very large fees, and with management/ownership that truly listens to the members and steers the forum the way the members want. There were/are no intentions of "breaking up the band" but rather providing yet another or alternative location for the band to promote their favorite cartridge and it's developments. The comment "actions speak louder than words" has been thrown out there, and we agree - that's why we are doing something that we, and a lot of others, think will help. Any and all are welcome to use it as they see fit. People can make all the derogatory comments they want about it based on whatever emotions they want, but you will see that in the "big picture" of things, it is yet another "thing" that will help the cartridge advance by creating additional exposure and bring more folks into the mix that quite honestly have been turned off by the behavior of some of the folks here and the "one stop shop" mentality that restricts the cartridge's advancement in the industry.

We don't really feel we need to defend the decision we made to making sure that if things go sideways here, that there is another place that won't go sideways as well that provides an alternative layout and more opportunity for exposure. How and why could and would folks really complain about that unless there is some sort of personal interest in keeping the cartridge in one little cubby-hole?

We built it when ownership first changed hands some time ago and folks got all upset about it for just in case purposes. When this last fiasco happened it was clear that there was going to be some fallout and we didn't want folks that can provide a lot of input and support to just simply "sail off into the night", so we "turned it on", another place for folks to go to continue the mission but in a different place so they didn't just disappear.

Accuse us of anything you want, make all the jokes about it you want (comments from other threads), but if you take a step back and look at the big picture, the more options, the better.

Some folks are going to insult us or question our intentions or integrity no matter what we do, and we can't let that distract us. Otherwise, nothing will ever get done and nothing can advance.
 

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Oh, you mean you really set up another forum? I thought it was all a big joke. Never knew you serious. I haven't seen the first comment about it other than the OP, where are all these accusations coming from?
 

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Oh, you mean you really set up another forum? I thought it was all a big joke. Never knew you serious. I haven't seen the first comment about it other than the OP, where are all these accusations coming from?
We admit sliding the url into a post in the new member section thread was not the best approach, so we deleted it. There are several recent threads where the alternative forum is mentioned and the same 10-15 people poo-poo it with little joes, wisecracks, integrity atracks and accusations... threads about people staying and people going, etc.
 

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I think folks should see the other forum as "another" forum. There's been lots of comments made about intentions, etc. which again we let slide off our back because we know why we started it and people have a right to their opinions. If you actually visit and watch there is no commercializing, no profit center, and no focus on anything but the advancement of the 6.8SPCII. No reason why folks can't belong to both. The way things have been going around here it made sense to break off with something that focuses on the 6.8 SPCII like everyone wanted, with a few more restrictions on behavior (professionalism and focus on comroderie and avancing the 6.8 SPCII in the marketplace without drama and cartridge wars), with a bigger menu of industry folks that support the cartridge without having to pay very large fees, and with management/ownership that truly listens to the members and steers the forum the way the members want. There were/are no intentions of "breaking up the band" but rather providing yet another or alternative location for the band to promote their favorite cartridge and it's developments. The comment "actions speak louder than words" has been thrown out there, and we agree - that's why we are doing something that we, and a lot of others, think will help. Any and all are welcome to use it as they see fit. People can make all the derogatory comments they want about it based on whatever emotions they want, but you will see that in the "big picture" of things, it is yet another "thing" that will help the cartridge advance by creating additional exposure and bring more folks into the mix that quite honestly have been turned off by the behavior of some of the folks here and the "one stop shop" mentality that restricts the cartridge's advancement in the industry.

We don't really feel we need to defend the decision we made to making sure that if things go sideways here, that there is another place that won't go sideways as well that provides an alternative layout and more opportunity for exposure. How and why could and would folks really complain about that unless there is some sort of personal interest in keeping the cartridge in one little cubby-hole?

We built it when ownership first changed hands some time ago and folks got all upset about it for just in case purposes. When this last fiasco happened it was clear that there was going to be some fallout and we didn't want folks that can provide a lot of input and support to just simply "sail off into the night", so we "turned it on", another place for folks to go to continue the mission but in a different place so they didn't just disappear.

Accuse us of anything you want, make all the jokes about it you want (comments from other threads), but if you take a step back and look at the big picture, the more options, the better.

Some folks are going to insult us or question our intentions or integrity no matter what we do, and we can't let that distract us. Otherwise, nothing will ever get done and nothing can advance.
Funny how you claim to respect 1st and 2nd amendment rights but then chastise someone when their opinion differs from yours.
This forum and its members have done a fine job advancing the cartridge and can continue to do so.
Even heard the term divide and conquer?
A group together is much stronger than a group divided. Your creation of a second forum and your timing of its launch is viewed by many as an attempt to divide the community for your own gains.
They are entitled to that opinion.

As to my personal difference of opinion on your claiming ownership of loading the 6.8 long I am entitled to my opinion and to stand my ground on my opinion.
People have been working on the 6.8 at 2.4 since its inception. There are patents held on the 6.8 at 2.4 OAL in a few calibers, I'll let you find that on your own.
I talk to and consult with one of them, that knows Murray and consulted with him on the 6.8 cartridge.
There is a solid reason for my disdain with your Kramer like tactics.
As well I am entitled to my opinion and the ability to voice it.
 

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there is more than one "alternative" here is a quote from another

Please note: if you clicked 68spc2 and arrived here, it was not a mistake. I simply had it redirect to this link while I have a chance to build the site. Thanks, and enjoy the NRA-ILA info listed above. Check out the rest of the site, including pictures if you like!

I like this place
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Oh, you mean you really set up another forum? I thought it was all a big joke. Never knew you serious. I haven't seen the first comment about it other than the OP, where are all these accusations coming from?
yes, i set up another forum, on the assumption that folks might want a place to gather until these problems here got worked out. once i saw the other had been created i removed the URL and took it off line. it would require about an hours work to add catagories and topic headers. and it's FREE excepting buying ad free views, at $9 per 10,000 views it's not terribly expensive. i've used the server farm for several boards over the years, they run their course and i take them offline and delete them. i'll keep this one around but will not put it online unless it becomes necessary. i'm content here and don't need to join other like boards for the info i want to view.

the MDWS board is slick and well laid out, but it's just not for me. good luck with it
 

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We admit sliding the url into a post in the new member section thread was not the best approach, so we deleted it. There are several recent threads where the alternative forum is mentioned and the same 10-15 people poo-poo it with little joes, wisecracks, integrity atracks and accusations... threads about people staying and people going, etc.
So I guess my question would be: What is it this new forum is supposed to accomplish or in what way is it supposed to further the agenda of doing something with the SPC II cartridge? Those are all things that could be and were being discussed right here without adding more confusion to the mix with new forums etc. For years now, when you do a google search for the 6.8 SPC this forum is what pops up right there at the top. That is how I found it back about 5 years ago when I first came here and it has been the best forum I have been a member of, in fact it is the only forum I frequent any more. I don't know how a new forum is supposed to make anything better. I guess that it will sort itself out in the end.
 

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yes, i set up another forum, on the assumption that folks might want a place to gather until these problems here got worked out. once i saw the other had been created i removed the URL and took it off line. it would require about an hours work to add catagories and topic headers. and it's FREE excepting buying ad free views, at $9 per 10,000 views it's not terribly expensive. i've used the server farm for several boards over the years, they run their course and i take them offline and delete them. i'll keep this one around but will not put it online unless it becomes necessary. i'm content here and don't need to join other like boards for the info i want to view.

the MDWS board is slick and well laid out, but it's just not for me. good luck with it
Yea, I just found it. It is well laid out because it is basically an exact clone of this forum, minus the colors and ad banners.
 

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RE: 6.8SPCII.com The division is a very clear line with clear faces and reasons.

Needed to clarify that after trying to get 3 different CNCs and a band saw going, answering the phone, emails and PMs all at the same time.

To anyone that saw the copy and paste. It should have gone into an email to someone I don't think is an active member here. My bad.
I get emails all the time from people that want to start a business. Some just want parts to sell, some want to create something new to be different. Lots of ideas flying around, some good, some bad IMO but it seems everyone wants a part of the AR15 business.
 

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Mark,

You were a rabid 6.8 enthusiast, like the rest of us. Then you faded away from here as you fell in love with your rendition of an upgrade to the .300WTF. Ok... I get that. And, I appreciated that your approach to its promotion was to allow it to stand on its own merits. I'll leave that venture at that. I get it.

Then, suddenly, you're coming back here to sniff around. Ok, I get it... welcome back.

Then, the promise to tool up and load ammo for sale to 6.8SPC II levels... ("you want it, we'll do it" sort of pitch) Cool, we're all over that concept!! And... then... BTW... we're also excited about this new thing too.

Well the new thing you're excited about hasn't garnered a new verse of the Hallelujah Chorus. Instead, some folks saw some red flags on the approach with regard to its impact upon years of hard work to better the 6.8 SPC. Concerns be damned, you're excited about your new love and, that's that. Ok, I get that too. Outward appearances, you're appearing to attempt to take the high road with discussion on it. You can recall the .300WTF fiasco and how his approach blew up in his face. And, since we haven't begun singing the new verse of the Hallelujah Chorus, there's all kinds of back peddling on the promise to load ammo to 6.8 SPC II spec and sell it. The appearance (to me) is, we want you to eat THIS... now start singing/eating.

Now, I fully understand the frustration of the recent password fiasco. And, I can fully understand being fed up and choosing to leave. And, I can appreciate the ceremonious departure post (I had to smile when you locked that thread so no one else could reply to it). I get it... if that's your final answer... peace be with you upon your departure from us.

Fast forward half a week (as the dust settles)... no "Gee... M'be my departure was a little hasty, I'm still angry over it... but... so, I'm choosing to remain". I'd get that too. But, instead, it's been a few days' worth of lurking after the big stomp out the door letter... go open a new forum and invite folks to come there (at the New Member sub forum here), and now, come back and start defending yourself for doing so. Like another said... the timing of it all is just more red flags.

A vendor, truly wanting to promote the 6.8 SPC is going to work through the struggles which are a part of the history of and characteristic of the cartridge. The apparent bait/switch (promises uttered, but apparently uttered conditionally) when the new idea isn't proclaimed (by the 6.8 community) as the saving grace of a failing ship (tongue in cheek). Well... it all begins to smell of agendas, motives...

Yes, you've had a sub-forum here. And, if/when you catch flags of attention for your pet project, you show up to lap up attention for it... but, where's Mark on a daily basis? Where's his wit, his tales of adventure, comradery, help with struggles, load development day in, day out for the 6.8 SPC? This place isn't your first love, your actions (lack thereof) do speak louder. And, it's not JUST folks who are suspicious seeing things they question. I can (I won't, but could) name at least one of those Hallelujah Chorus singers who've questioned you during your attempted pitch of your newest notion and promise to offer 6.8SPC II spec'd ammo for sale.

Bottom line, a 6.8forums vendor has decided to turn his back on this place (and, by default, the membership). And, now you're surprised at the reactions to that?

Ok.
 

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Guys,
Crayj had an idea. I see no wrong in that. Anyone is entitled to open a forum or website on whatever they want. This is a free country.
I wonder how much of the drama is part of the vertical scope fiasco and how much is due to something else but one thing is clear, people always want their
contributions to be appreciated and recognized and some also want to have something they call their own. Some might simply want to do something
in case SHTF and this forum goes down again. There is no crime in that.
Also admins were left in the dark so I am hoping when vertical scope are done stopping their security fires can properly explain what happened.

Many folks here some whom I know personally are not just enthusiasts, we are beyond that, we are fanatics of the 6.8 and wildcats.
There is a fine line between hobby and insanity and some of us has crossed that line three towns back. lol

This forum has problems but still is one of the best forums in the web no matter what.
Opening an maintaining a forum is a royal PITA. Anyone can open a forum in up 10 minutes but the problem is making it work and the monumental amount
of investment (funds and mostly time) that it requires.
Resolving the technical issues and improving functionality for a next generation statefull kind of platform that is attractive is not cheap.
Forum hosted in a CMS, multitenant platform (Weebly, wordpress, chitchat, etc..) does not have the capability to grow and provide the integration and additional
functionality that is required to improve this forum and that can only be achieved by a dedicated infrastructure and very specific integration of software and resources.

I like what others are doing with the cartriges and the wildcats forums and whatever we do lets not destroy anyone's initiatives.
Keep in mind that no matter how innovative one thinks he/she is, if you look at the list of reamers and variants short and long chambered most of us are not inventing anything new.
Many of those cartriges were already there. Some 50+ years ago since the men returned from Vietnam and started wildcatting with the 223 and others.
In the end, advancing the firearms research and discussion is something we all love.

If someone else creates a forum I will take a look but in the end I believe the people end up where the action is. The action is here.
The largest knowledge base and most intellectual property on the 6.8spc I and II is here, by a large margin. The most knowledgeable people in the industry are also long time contributors here.

I would suggest we stop the trajectory of this conversation and move it private because it is not helping anyone and also it might be confusing the new comers that
are probably looking for loading recipes, build parts, the laugh of the day, etc... ...and this is depressing.

Of course you are entitled to carry on with it .. I am just saying....
 
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