Joined
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99 Posts
So let's say I want NV for giggles and such, and don't want to spend quite so much, only looking to pop a few howlers after dark, nothing fancy, form over function.
margaritas,
cj
margaritas,
cj
economical NV?
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Joined
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5,565 Posts
Q-Beam with red filter, $15 at BassPro... :lol: :lol:
HTR would be a great person to PM with your question if he doesn't see your post. TNV corporation (Tactical Night Vision) is a big sponsor on AR15.com, and the guy posting from there seems to be knowledgeable about the products.
I bought a Russian Gen 2 (or supposed to be) handheld viewer that's about the size of a camcorder. With the infrared illuminator turned on it works okay for moving around, but long range viewing is too grainy. So you need advice on what scope or monocular works for your range.
Mine isn't near the technology the anti-swine commandos on this forum employ in their *** (War on Pigs). Mine is mainly good for making sure I'm not about to step in a hole, or seeing what the heck the dog is barking at in the back yard.
HTR would be a great person to PM with your question if he doesn't see your post. TNV corporation (Tactical Night Vision) is a big sponsor on AR15.com, and the guy posting from there seems to be knowledgeable about the products.
I bought a Russian Gen 2 (or supposed to be) handheld viewer that's about the size of a camcorder. With the infrared illuminator turned on it works okay for moving around, but long range viewing is too grainy. So you need advice on what scope or monocular works for your range.
Mine isn't near the technology the anti-swine commandos on this forum employ in their *** (War on Pigs). Mine is mainly good for making sure I'm not about to step in a hole, or seeing what the heck the dog is barking at in the back yard.
Joined
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7,772 Posts
I agree for this topic especially you are getting what you pay for.....
the PVS14 is very nice but a little less then economical, that 4x NVG scope HTR has is wicked nice... but even less economical....
I would talk to victor at Tactical Night vision....
the PVS14 is very nice but a little less then economical, that 4x NVG scope HTR has is wicked nice... but even less economical....
I would talk to victor at Tactical Night vision....
i've been looking into this as well. For good quality, you basically get either the D-300 from Victor over at TNVC for $1500ish, or you spring for a PVS-14 system for $3200+. Alot depends on where you will be using it. Urban use with steetlights/house light, get the PVS-14 for it's adjustable gain (which really helps negate the washing out effect lights can have). If you using it in a mainly rural area, the cheaper D-300 may work.
I'm still buying other gear I need, but I may eventually break down and get that PVS-14. Owwww, painful price though. Have to come up with more uses for it to self-justify it's steep pricetag.
See pics out of both setups here:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=18&t=194673
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=18&t=194640
For this site you have to register to see the pics:
http://www.nightvisionforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=1139
I'm still buying other gear I need, but I may eventually break down and get that PVS-14. Owwww, painful price though. Have to come up with more uses for it to self-justify it's steep pricetag.
See pics out of both setups here:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=18&t=194673
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=18&t=194640
For this site you have to register to see the pics:
http://www.nightvisionforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=1139
Joined
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2,431 Posts
this subject comes up alot on the Texasboars forum
overwhelmingly people say bite the bullet and get Gen 3
some will report sucess with Gen 1 ATN stuff then others will curse it
a red filtered light (or red LED) works very well with a decent scope
I have a set of Texas Boars red LED lights that will light up an area out to about 75 yards with about a 30-40 yard width
fine for setting up over a feeder for hogs
I am about to order his new red LED weapon mounted light that is reportedly good out to 150 yards with a good scope
they run 175
overwhelmingly people say bite the bullet and get Gen 3
some will report sucess with Gen 1 ATN stuff then others will curse it
a red filtered light (or red LED) works very well with a decent scope
I have a set of Texas Boars red LED lights that will light up an area out to about 75 yards with about a 30-40 yard width
fine for setting up over a feeder for hogs
I am about to order his new red LED weapon mounted light that is reportedly good out to 150 yards with a good scope
they run 175
I bought the D-300 after the recommendation of HTR. It was more in my price range. I really like it for what I paid. I use it on my 458S behind my eotech. On really dark no moon night you'll need the ir illuminator and my recognition range(1/4moon to be able to tell the dif between a hog and a small deer in deep grass) is only about 60-75 yards. I will order their magnifier that should help. If your use or set up is 50-60yd or less, you'll probably be pleased with it, anything way way over start savin money 
Joined
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1,682 Posts
I really dont like any of you guys who can afford the fancy stuff...
tnv d300ms or 2st...
xenonics supervision??(dont throw poop at me please) :lol:
tnv d300ms or 2st...
xenonics supervision??(dont throw poop at me please) :lol:
Joined
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670 Posts
Anybody have any experience with the supervision? According to their ads it is great, but iit s enough of a price difference that I am suspicious of the quality. Just wondering if anyone has actually used them?
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2,431 Posts
some info on the red LED lights I mentioned
http://www.texasboars.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=13852
http://www.texasboars.com/catalog/
http://www.texasboars.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=13852
http://www.texasboars.com/catalog/
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1,682 Posts
If the supervision had a weapon and helmet mount. I would buy it for myself.
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7,772 Posts
what laser do you use? I want one for my rig.....
Joined
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1,682 Posts
I really need night vision to mount to my MICH/ACH helmet. I have the rhino mount and everything just waiting to snap an nod onto....
Are there any resources for used or refurbished nods like older pvs7s and what not???
Are there any resources for used or refurbished nods like older pvs7s and what not???
Joined
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3,178 Posts
I see it is time for me to render a comprehensive NVD eval. here for you guys. I am happy to do that:
Let's start with requirements:
1) Do you really need high resolution...enough so that you can tell the difference between a small pig and a raccoon, or a huge hog and a calf, at 100 or even 150 yards?
2) Do you need a variable gain feature? Will you be entering widely varied light fields? I.e, will you go quickly from the pitch blackness of the woods to the lights of a street or house?
3) Will you need magnification?. Will you need a reticle in the optic, or just a viewing device? Do you have experience with lasers? Are you familiar with infrared technology?
Let's now supply some answers to the above:
1) If you need fine resolution, enough to tell the difference between small animals at ranges of around 100 yards, you need Gen III. If you are going to be looking around your yard, or walking around your deer lease, simply navigating in the dark, then Gen II will work fine. However, be aware that in very dark conditions, even Gen III usually also requires that you use some sort of IR illumination. The bottom line? If you can even remotely afford it, get the Gen III.
2) Variable gain is my favorite feature of the PVS-14. I lament the fact that my D-740 does not have it, and that cost me $4300 :shock: However, my D-740 is "auto-gated." This means that when I suddenly enter a high light field, the tube cuts the receiving intensity by a sufficient amount to protect from damage to the reflector plate. This also means that you can zero the night optic at daytime without damaging the tube. The newer Gen III ITT Pinnacle model PVS-14's are all autogated, and have a single battery. They are fantastic units, and can be purchased from Victor Dicasola at Tactical Night Vision company. I would not now buy a new PVS-14 if it were not autogated. Again, the bottom line is that Gen III is the top of the line in performance and if you can find a way to afford it, that is the way to go.
3) A D- 740 is a dedicated 4x or 6x (the D-760) night scope and has a reticle built in. You really cannot effectively move if from gun to gun, because no QD mounts are being made yet. You simply switch it on, and use it like a traditional scope. You can also get a Gen II SHP D-740, and this might be a good option for some of you. A PVS-14 is a monocular. The D-300 is a less expensive monocular. The MUM is a monocular of high quality with no variable gain feature.
There is no reticle in a monocular. There is no magnification. You will also need to buy the 3X magnifier separately. This means that you still need a sighting device to use it for a weapon. Take your pick. You can add the Aimpoint or Eotech NV compatibles for an extra $4-500. You can also go crazy with PEQ's, and other such laser devices in the $1000-2000 range. Some of these setups require that you also buy a monolithic rail handguard so that you can move everything forward sufficient to get the NVD behind the sight. Again, if you buy a D-740, you simply strap it on the gun, zero and kill, kill kill.
IR illuminator. Do I need one?
If you hunt at night as much as I do....YES. About %70 of your hunts will be with extreme low light. Either a waning moon phase, or cloudy nights. If there is no moon, and low ceiling, no NVD performs very well, without some sort of IR illumination. MY D-740 is amazing in these conditions all things considered, but I still have to use the Torch IR (basically an IR LED flashlight). A Gen II with no IR illumination renders you blind on at least 50% of the nights you will choose to hunt, unless you never go out with anything other than full moon and clear skies.....yeah right. :roll: a Gen III with an IR illuminator gives you near impunity from dark conditions.
Some other things to consider:
1) if you put a NV compatible Aimpoint or Eotech on your rifles, and sight them in in the daytime....as long as you put them far enough forward,....you can now use the Eo in the daylight, then simply strap the PVS-14 on the gun behind it once the sun goes down and you don't have to re-zero anything.
2) there is a UNI-mount which will adapt a PVS-14 to a dayscope / glass optic. This can work pretty well in certain circumstances, such as, when you don't want to use an AP or Eo on a rifle for its daytime use, or, when you have high light (full moon) and you can get away with using high magnification.
2) Newer designs like the PVS-22 are generally restricted to LE sales right now, and are almost impossible to get. Cost is around $8000 if you get lucky, $10,000 if you buy retail. Yes, they are incredible and even beat the D-740 and PVS-14, but they are mounted in front of the optic so you don't lose resolution and light transmission the way you do when the NVD has to be viewed through the glass of another optic... usually one that is not designed to "gather" light.
I hope this helps. Please feel free to IM with specific questions, or book a hog hunt, and I will take you out and let you use my devices and my guns to kill a few pigs. Then you can decide what to buy.
For the purchase of new units: I highly recommend Victor from TNVC. He is a consummate professional and my dealings with him have been a pleasure. He has outfitted my operation with the best equipment money can buy.
For those inquiring about used / surplus/ refurb units, I can recommend Amerisurp, and American Electro Optics, Inc.
HTR
Let's start with requirements:
1) Do you really need high resolution...enough so that you can tell the difference between a small pig and a raccoon, or a huge hog and a calf, at 100 or even 150 yards?
2) Do you need a variable gain feature? Will you be entering widely varied light fields? I.e, will you go quickly from the pitch blackness of the woods to the lights of a street or house?
3) Will you need magnification?. Will you need a reticle in the optic, or just a viewing device? Do you have experience with lasers? Are you familiar with infrared technology?
Let's now supply some answers to the above:
1) If you need fine resolution, enough to tell the difference between small animals at ranges of around 100 yards, you need Gen III. If you are going to be looking around your yard, or walking around your deer lease, simply navigating in the dark, then Gen II will work fine. However, be aware that in very dark conditions, even Gen III usually also requires that you use some sort of IR illumination. The bottom line? If you can even remotely afford it, get the Gen III.
2) Variable gain is my favorite feature of the PVS-14. I lament the fact that my D-740 does not have it, and that cost me $4300 :shock: However, my D-740 is "auto-gated." This means that when I suddenly enter a high light field, the tube cuts the receiving intensity by a sufficient amount to protect from damage to the reflector plate. This also means that you can zero the night optic at daytime without damaging the tube. The newer Gen III ITT Pinnacle model PVS-14's are all autogated, and have a single battery. They are fantastic units, and can be purchased from Victor Dicasola at Tactical Night Vision company. I would not now buy a new PVS-14 if it were not autogated. Again, the bottom line is that Gen III is the top of the line in performance and if you can find a way to afford it, that is the way to go.
3) A D- 740 is a dedicated 4x or 6x (the D-760) night scope and has a reticle built in. You really cannot effectively move if from gun to gun, because no QD mounts are being made yet. You simply switch it on, and use it like a traditional scope. You can also get a Gen II SHP D-740, and this might be a good option for some of you. A PVS-14 is a monocular. The D-300 is a less expensive monocular. The MUM is a monocular of high quality with no variable gain feature.
There is no reticle in a monocular. There is no magnification. You will also need to buy the 3X magnifier separately. This means that you still need a sighting device to use it for a weapon. Take your pick. You can add the Aimpoint or Eotech NV compatibles for an extra $4-500. You can also go crazy with PEQ's, and other such laser devices in the $1000-2000 range. Some of these setups require that you also buy a monolithic rail handguard so that you can move everything forward sufficient to get the NVD behind the sight. Again, if you buy a D-740, you simply strap it on the gun, zero and kill, kill kill.
IR illuminator. Do I need one?
If you hunt at night as much as I do....YES. About %70 of your hunts will be with extreme low light. Either a waning moon phase, or cloudy nights. If there is no moon, and low ceiling, no NVD performs very well, without some sort of IR illumination. MY D-740 is amazing in these conditions all things considered, but I still have to use the Torch IR (basically an IR LED flashlight). A Gen II with no IR illumination renders you blind on at least 50% of the nights you will choose to hunt, unless you never go out with anything other than full moon and clear skies.....yeah right. :roll: a Gen III with an IR illuminator gives you near impunity from dark conditions.
Some other things to consider:
1) if you put a NV compatible Aimpoint or Eotech on your rifles, and sight them in in the daytime....as long as you put them far enough forward,....you can now use the Eo in the daylight, then simply strap the PVS-14 on the gun behind it once the sun goes down and you don't have to re-zero anything.
2) there is a UNI-mount which will adapt a PVS-14 to a dayscope / glass optic. This can work pretty well in certain circumstances, such as, when you don't want to use an AP or Eo on a rifle for its daytime use, or, when you have high light (full moon) and you can get away with using high magnification.
2) Newer designs like the PVS-22 are generally restricted to LE sales right now, and are almost impossible to get. Cost is around $8000 if you get lucky, $10,000 if you buy retail. Yes, they are incredible and even beat the D-740 and PVS-14, but they are mounted in front of the optic so you don't lose resolution and light transmission the way you do when the NVD has to be viewed through the glass of another optic... usually one that is not designed to "gather" light.
I hope this helps. Please feel free to IM with specific questions, or book a hog hunt, and I will take you out and let you use my devices and my guns to kill a few pigs. Then you can decide what to buy.
For the purchase of new units: I highly recommend Victor from TNVC. He is a consummate professional and my dealings with him have been a pleasure. He has outfitted my operation with the best equipment money can buy.
For those inquiring about used / surplus/ refurb units, I can recommend Amerisurp, and American Electro Optics, Inc.
HTR
Joined
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7,772 Posts
I still want to get some sort of laser.... what do you guys recommended? Can I use a visible light laser and not be over powered? can you buy IR lasers if your none LEO/MIL?
I want something like the PEQ but those are restricted....
I want something like the PEQ but those are restricted....
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7,772 Posts
Cheap is good but I dont see a link
Joined
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3,178 Posts
Sure, go right ahead. And be sure to mention that I run guided hunts for hogs near Goliad, and that I let my hunters use our NVD's while hunting there. Then direct them to 68 forums so they can see my posted photos. For contact info on hunts:HTR said:
Wild River Ranch, LLC
361-779-4530
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