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Custom -- Honed Die Question

2712 Views 20 Replies 7 Participants Last post by Ammunition Attrition, Feb 12, 2017

sawacs

Discussion Starter · Feb 8, 2017 (Edited)

I am considering having my 6.8 Hornady die honed for the neck sizing or sending them a few fired cases and having a custom die set made.

My question is would it be worth having a die honed or having a custom set created for use in an AR platform or should I simply stick with the factory die as is? My concern with the Hornady, or any sizing die, is the large amount of neck tension after sizing along with overworking the brass. What I would like to do is have a sizing die that would give me .002 or .003 neck tension then make a final pass with a Lee factory crimp die if necessary.

Lastly, my hat is off to Hornady for their dies. I cannot remember ever using a smoother die and they don't leave marks on the brass!

Thanks

1 - 20 of 21 Posts

Ammunition Attrition

· #2 · Feb 8, 2017

Sounds good and let us know how it works out. I started using the Redding "s" bushing sizer die, with changeable-size neck bushings as another way to do the same thing, really,and also so i can wildcat down to the 6x6.8. I would tell you the bushing size (gold, slick ones) for our beloved 6.8 but I'd have to dump it out and screw up its positioning andno way! It's perfect!
Hey, folks whst size bushing you use in the s die? Can't recall for the life of me...., .301 maybe?

sawacs

Discussion Starter · #3 · Feb 8, 2017

Ammunition Attrition said:
Sounds good and let us know how it works out. I started using the Redding "s" bushing sizer die, with changeable-size neck bushings as another way to do the same thing, really,and also so i can wildcat down to the 6x6.8. I would tell you the bushing size (gold, slick ones) for our beloved 6.8 but I'd have to dump it out and screw up its positioning andno way! It's perfect!
Hey, folks whst size bushing you use in the s die? Can't recall for the life of me...., .301 maybe?

Have you ran into any issues with a donut forming in the neck/shoulder junction using the bushings?

Conaso

· #4 · Feb 9, 2017

I have the Hornady CG New Dimension die set. I bump the shoulder .002" to limit working brass and use LFC .002" for consistent neck tension. I load SSA brass and 110gr ABs with both H322 (#400) and AA2200 (#41).

wxl

· #5 · Feb 9, 2017

sawacs said:
Have you ran into any issues with a donut forming in the neck/shoulder junction using the bushings?

I only have experience with the S die for 308 and have not had an issue with donut issue. Seating bullet seems to take care of minor irregularities. Have not used this die on badly mangled necks. The die comes with option of using an expander ball like all other dies. Some use it and some do not. The S die also gives you option of changing bushing for different amount of desired tension. This option is also needed if you change to different brass with different neck thickness.

sawacs

Discussion Starter · #6 · Feb 9, 2017

wxl said:
I only have experience with the S die for 308 and have not had an issue with donut issue. Seating bullet seems to take care of minor irregularities. Have not used this die on badly mangled necks. The die comes with option of using an expander ball like all other dies. Some use it and some do not. The S die also gives you option of changing bushing for different amount of desired tension. This option is also needed if you change to different brass with different neck thickness.

Copy that and thank you for the information.

I have the Redding bushing dies for the 260 and 6.5x284 but have not tried them yet:a43: It sounds like it would be worth a shot to try on the 6.8 so what the heck: I'll order a set and see what happens. Worst case, they will need to be run through a neck turning pilot with a donut cutter so that is no big deal.

Thanks

Blowout

· #7 · Feb 9, 2017 (Edited)

The challenge with neck sizing with a honed die would be with variations in neck thickness. Unless your turning all the necks, or using high end brass like Lapua, there will be variance in neck tension.

If you hone the die to just produce slightly under desired ID diameter and follow up with a neck expander ball through each case, then the ID will be uniform even if the OD is not. That will give better neck tension repeatability without neck turning. Not sure what you should bast hone the die to, but perhaps someone else can chime in.

Forster hones dies for only $12 plus shipping.

Using an expander ball also helps uniform necks that the neck sizing may not correct. Auto loaders tend to ding up case mouths a lot more than bolt guns.

Annealing the neck and shoulder helps with consistent neck tension too.

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sawacs

Discussion Starter · #8 · Feb 9, 2017 (Edited)

I think I am going to try the Redding Bushing Type S Full Sizer: #77259

My loaded rounds with Hornady brass measured .302 and if my math is correct, a .299 or .298 bushing should work. However, I will be using the SSA brass rather than the Hornady stuff: have not loaded up an SSA round to measure the case yet.

What do you fellas think regarding my bushing selection?

I am looking for .003 neck tension for starters.

Btw, I sure wish Redding made a #5 competition shell holder set: setting the shoulder bump would require zero brainpower

Thanks!

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snowsnake

· #9 · Feb 9, 2017

sawacs said:
I think I am going to try the Redding Bushing Type S Full Sizer: #77259

My loaded rounds with Hornady brass measured .302 and if my math is correct, a .299 or .298 bushing should work. However, I will be using the SSA brass rather than the Hornady stuff: have not loaded up an SSA round to measure the case yet.

What do you fellas think regarding my bushing selection?

I am looking for .003 neck tension for starters.

Btw, I sure wish Redding made a #5 competition shell holder set: setting the shoulder bump would require zero brainpower

Thanks![/QUOTE

Send an email or call Redding and mention your interest in the shell holder set. I did last year and was told they submit these requests in there company meetings and if they receive enough interest they will put them in production.
.003 under sounds good on the bushing. One thing to keep in mind, factory ammo can and will vary slightly in neck wall thickness. The best results when using the bushing dies are when the brass have been neck turned to all the same thickness. That way they are all sized equally and have the same neck tension. A neck thickness micrometer is your friend. As mentioned earlier it is a lot simpler to use a .004 to .005 under bushing then bring it back up to size with the expander. That will keep the brass being worked to a minimum and speed up the sizing.

Ammunition Attrition

· #10 · Feb 9, 2017 (Edited)

[/QUOTE]

Have you ran into any issues with a donut forming in the neck/shoulder junction using the bushings?[/QUOTE]

Not yet but only've run a couple hundred 6.8 cases through it and, importantly, found the slick gold bushing insert size that perfectly grips the .277/.278" boolits i use. Think it's a .301???? Anyone?? Also fitted it with a .223 expander rod fitted with i think a .277" expander ball--it keeps the whole sizing process really smooth which is why no donuts so far.
Cautious now 'cause i can visualize what you're writing occurring and, dude, glad it ain't happened--yet.
I, too, love and use the Hornady New Dimension, specifically their seater dies, for all boolit seating especially any boolit type that likes to Fight the Seat even after an expander die.

sawacs

Discussion Starter · #11 · Feb 9, 2017 (Edited)

Have you ran into any issues with a donut forming in the neck/shoulder junction using the bushings?[/QUOTE]

Not yet but only've run a couple hundred 6.8 cases through it and, importantly, found the slick gold bushing insert size that perfectly grips the .277/.278" boolits i use. Think it's a .301???? Anyone?? Also fitted it with a .223 expander rod fitted with i think a .277" expander ball--it keeps the whole sizing process really smooth which is why no donuts so far.
Cautious now 'cause i can visualize what you're writing occurring and, dude, glad it ain't happened--yet.
I, too, love and use the Hornady New Dimension, specifically their seater dies, for all boolit seating especially any boolit type that likes to Fight the Seat even after an expander die.[/QUOTE]

If you ever need to get rid of a donut, this tool works wonders..: http://kmshooting.com/tools/holding/pilots/carbide-cutting-pilot.html

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GLShooter

· #12 · Feb 9, 2017

I run the Redding Type S FL die using 299-300 bushings. No donuts to be seen so far and I have some of the 6X6.8 made and loaded with the same set up with over a dozen firings.

If one were running light bullets that don't go case the case neck/ shoulder junction you would never notice the donut if it forms. Sholud you find one just running an expander through the neck and then a light neck turn will eat it up quickly and then you would possibly have to go down in bushing size if you were aggressive in the amount turned off the rest of the neck.

Greg

sawacs

Discussion Starter · #13 · Feb 9, 2017

GLShooter said:
I run the Redding Type S FL die using 299-300 bushings. No donuts to be seen so far and I have some of the 6X6.8 made and loaded with the same set up with over a dozen firings.

If one were running light bullets that don't go case the case neck/ shoulder junction you would never notice the donut if it forms. Sholud you find one just running an expander through the neck and then a light neck turn will eat it up quickly and then you would possibly have to go down in bushing size if you were aggressive in the amount turned off the rest of the neck.

Greg

Thank you for the information Greg. I have the Type S FL die on the way along with the 299 and 300 bushings: should be fun. As far as neck turning goes, I might try neck turning just enough to hit the high spots and straighten the neck up.

Btw, I really want a 6x6.8

Cheers!

GLShooter

· #14 · Feb 9, 2017

sawacs said:
Thank you for the information Greg. I have the Type S FL die on the way along with the 299 and 300 bushings: should be fun. As far as neck turning goes, I might try neck turning just enough to hit the high spots and straighten the neck up.

Btw, I really want a 6x6.8

Cheers!

You are very welcome. When you decide to buy a barrel let me know and I can save you some $$'s.

Greg

sawacs

Discussion Starter · #15 · Feb 11, 2017

I just received the Redding Type S bushing die along with the .300 and .299 bushings today. Are you guys using the expander ball with the bushing die or leaving that out of the process?

The reason I ask is my expander from KM was ground today and should be here some time next week. I am trying to figure out if I should wait on that or get going with the Redding die.

Thanks

GLShooter

· #16 · Feb 11, 2017

sawacs said:
I just received the Redding Type S bushing die along with the .300 and .299 bushings today. Are you guys using the expander ball with the bushing die or leaving that out of the process?

The reason I ask is my expander from KM was ground today and should be here some time next week. I am trying to figure out if I should wait on that or get going with the Redding die.

Thanks

I never use an expander ball with bushing dies. It defeats the purpose of the bushings.

Greg

wxl

· #17 · Feb 11, 2017

With the 308 S bushing die I do not use the expander ball.

Ammunition Attrition

· #18 · Feb 11, 2017 (Edited)

I use this carbide expander ball on the decapper to smooth any inward dings i cannot always see. Smooth and gives better cocentricity and you can "feel it" in the seating of the bullet.
Btw, .300" gold titanium bushing on decapper for all boolits so far.
http://www.sinclairintl.com/reloadi...button-kit-std-type-s-prod33284.aspx?psize=96

sawacs

Discussion Starter · #19 · Feb 11, 2017 (Edited)

Copy all and thanks for the information.

Update..

Here is what have found out about sizing never fired 6.8 cases with the Redding Type S and the .299 and .300 bushings.

Neither one of those bushings will straighten out a brand new SSA case neck with a slight dent or out of round condition. However, after the first firing I am sure they will take care of the neck unless the brass is dented from the ejection.

So, it looks as though I will need to wait on the KM expand mandrel to arrive before proceeding any further. With neck turning, it would be a great idea to run the expand mandrel through the neck right off the bat to straighten the neck and expand it enough to fit over the neck trimming pilot. Once that is complete, simply run the case through the bushing to set the neck tension and your good to go.

Cheers!

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sawacs

Discussion Starter · #20 · Feb 11, 2017

Ammunition Attrition said:
I use this carbide expander ball on the decapper to smooth any inward dings i cannot always see. Smooth and gives better cocentricity and you can "feel it" in the seating of the bullet.
Btw, .300" gold titanium bushing on decapper for all boolits so far.
http://www.sinclairintl.com/reloadi...button-kit-std-type-s-prod33284.aspx?psize=96

Attrition, are you using the button in a separate step? The reason I ask is if you use the sizing button with the bushing, you are setting neck tension based on the button rather than the bushing.

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