[constructor]

Just to clarify, all cases do not hold the same amount of powder. I have posted several max loads throughout the forum, do not use those loads in Hornady or Remington cases without starting lower and working up until you see signs of high pressure. Hornady cases weigh 5 grains more than SSA so the capacity will be lower and could blow primers if used with maximum loads in SSA cases.

 

[coldair]

Thanks for the warning this should be a sticky

 

[RedTx]

Glad you posted this. I was just about to ask this very question. Thanks alot

 

[Equalizer_2]

This also applies when you get a new Lot number of powder.

Each lot has slight variations. As an example I have some Unique that the max load for what I shoot in my .44 mag is 11 grains, and a newer reloading manual says to use 12.1 gr for a max load. Then the 12.1 gr load is listed as 100 fps SLOWER than the 11 gr load using the same bullet.

 

[nova]

Hornady cases weigh 5 grains more than SSA so the capacity will be lower

This is my mind rambling during a boring afternoon at work but does anyone know if there are some brass alloy variations manufacturer to manufacturer?

My handy dandy materials reference book lists the density of brass as ~8400-8700 kg/m^3. A density variation due to alloy difference could account for some portion of the weight variance as well.

If nobody knows, I may have to do a quick and dirty density test one afternoon.

I feel the need to agree 100% on reworking loads though. Your fingers will thank you for not trying to remove them from your hand with a KB...

 

[Test_User]

I know we have said this for some time.

Even without the diff in volume the SSA cases are harder and will contain more pressure which lowers the amount of thrust on the bolt.

C,

I jisut wish Art woudl make a new run the same way that very first small primer case run was. That extra room woudl sure come in handy with barrels like the ARP and Xtremes that can handle more. I bet there woudl be another 50 fps to be had with some loads.

 

[kalwasart]

Give me a water capacity you want, and I will see what we can do. Be realistic.

Art - SSA

 

[marinesg1012]

Art Honestly that is why we love you guys......

 

[Test_User]

Damn ARt I was getting ready to say 40


You know Art compared to ANY other manf and even small reload operations you are by far the most receptive owner and company EVER in ammo manf. Your ammo is number one because you listen to your target customers and try as best you can to meet or exceed all expectations. This probably doesn't get said enough but thank you so much for what you have done with the 6.8. I know its symbiotic relationship where we both support each other but you give us such a huge choice of loadings its great.


If H doesn't put up the capacity I will do it tonight later.

Your very first run or small primer cases were a full grain + more than any cases since. The only thing I can think of is extra metal in the head area but it could be the whole case. I know from our conversations some of what you are capable of and I think your first cases were some of the very best. I know H has 15 or so reloading and these were all with absolute max and over loads. I have a couple and you can hardly even see a head stamp anymore but the primer pockets still hold and the necks are not split.

I'll see if I can take a picture of the cases so you can see how much of a beating the case head has been exposed to yet still is loadable. Its rather amusing.

 

[DrHenley]

Art, two years ago I spoke with you about using SSA brass for forming 264 RLB. We also discussed having SSA manufacture 264 RLB cases.

I have to turn a good bit of brass off the necks, and you said that the new batches had thinner necks. You were going to send me some to try, and some cylindrical brass, but I never got them. I had a lot of problems trying to get in touch with you and finally gave up after trying for six months.

One of the reasons I joined this forum was the special you were offering members on brass a while back. I bought a batch and they appear to have even thicker necks than the ones I bought a few years ago.

Thinner necks and higher capacity would help immensely.

 

[Test_User]

Thicker necks are a double edged sword. Thicker necks last longer without splitting in there parent cartridge but it you neck down you end up having to turn them. It will also effect the neck tension from the dies and as this is mainly a auto loads specific round that is important. Rem cases have this issue which is mainly from QC but some necks are so thin that neck tension is way to low with some dies. In the end the parent case has to take priority.

If I had to be critical of of the 6.8 cases it would be the neck thickness varies. For everyone else understand this is looking for ideals and for most this is not a real issue.WE already know these cases are capable of .5 moa groups but without prepering not consistently. I am looking at it from the view of " is there anything that could be improved?" It may not be cost effective and if it cost more to do it and increased the price of the cases I would rather not change it.

Here is what I have found from all the match case prepping I have done to now thousands of rounds. I actually match prep ALL my SSA cases. I know I am sick but I can't help it.

Primer Pockets: Primer pockets are very consistent. When I square them it most of the time only takes a small amount around the edge and this is a consistent amount. SO Primer Poket I think are very good.

Flash Holes. The size is very consistent and there are veyr few flaps or burs left from the punch. The evenness of the area varies some but really the main benefit to reaming them is to put the bevel and make sure there are no burrs. So they are very good.

Necks: When I turn the necks there is almost always a thicker and thinner side. The necks also always start out thinner at the mouth and then get much thicker as you approach the shoulder. I can understand those like DR Hentely that wish for thinner necks for wildcatting purposed but IMO I think first making case necks as consistent in thickness as possible woudl be the first priority if any of this cpould be addressed and changed. As the case necks are now you could not really thin necks as it would then make to thin mouth to get the lower areas as thin as needed for necking down. If the necks were consistent throughout right in between the thickest lower and the thinner top it woudl probably be the best for all.

Hardness: Damn these cases have got to have some of the hardest case heads and lower body area of any cases I have seen. Yet the necks stil have the correct annealed hardness to prevent splitting and allow for numerous sizing without splitting. The snap back of the case head lower body area is enough that many times the lower area after being fired is not as large as the a what a FL size die would make it. I can almost always re-chamber a fired SSA case. Only after the FL sizing die in setting the shoulder back and sizing the upper area increased the lower body diameter some will it get snugger in the chamber at the base. From what I have seen SSA cases are harder than Lapua which have gotten softer over the last couple years. The only area IMO Lapua cases are superior is in the neck thickness consistency. Considering they are considered ready to go match cases and 6.8 SSA cases are made to be combat cases this speak very well of the quality of SSA QC and manufacturing procedures and processes.


More than anything I woudl like to see the case capacity increased back to the old level.

 

[constructor]

Art,
I believe I had 36gr H2O in "quickload" then changed it when I received the new cases.
I think I still have 400 very used from the very first lot of small primer brass. I'll trim them to 1.680" and weigh it in a few.

 

[Test_User]

Art,

I looked over my old data and this is what I have. Constructor can add his cases as he may have a run right before mine.

The very first cases from your early runs that I have hold 36.5 grain of H2O after firing which is what is normally used for loaders to determine case capacity. The new only hold 35.3

When sized which is still a tag bigger than how they come from the factory becasue of DPMS use of under spec tight chambers

The new ones hold 34.50 - 34.7 grains of H20 and the old ones held 35.9-36.1

What I can say is the old cases seems to old about 1.5 grains more than the ones I have.

At the dimensions you have the case at when they are new if you can get them to 36 grains of H2O that woudl be absolutely great. With the proprietary processes you use to make your cases I know you can certainly go thinner than what most have to make their cases. If you can hit that H2O volume it will add at least another 50+ FPS to a number of loads. It will also help greatly with alleviating over compression with some loads.

 

[constructor]

Art,
Since you are using new cases, I sized mine in a small base die and they are the same dia as your new cases and 1.68 in length. 36gr would be the target for new unfired cases, I am getting 35.5-.6 with the new unfired cases.
.4-.5 gr could get us 30-40fps.
Try 30.5 gr of 10x in and a pro-hunter in that Xtreme or 30.6gr of RE7 and the 85TSX, check the velocities. I hope the new powder works as well as either of those.
Can you use 1 powder for civilian sales and the powder with flash suppresant for the mil?
We are still talking about the +P+ load but I need to test the 100 and 110 Accubond and work up the most accurate load.

 

[Test_User]

I think C that also long as powder density is not an issue the 110s make the most sense. The nice think with either is that there will not be any issue with short pressure curves. The 110s as they for sure will get the most range for hunting and target shooting. Definitely give better penetration for hunting. If these were to be used with tactical use as the primary focus then the 100s would probably make better sense but even then only from a over penttration standpoint IMO. But lets face it how many incidents are there going to be doing that compared to how many are going to shoot paper and animals. One thing for sure it will have no isseu going thru windshield car doors and likely 1/2 mild steel plate at 16" velcities. The wild card is accuracy

 

[Test_User]

C,

How much do those first run cases hold H2O after sizing in the SBD?

 

[constructor]

c,

how much do those first run cases hold h2o after sizing in the sbd?

36. .....................
Tim are you running 1.2410 for Re 10X heat in QL? maybe closer to 1.235 with most bullets but the GS 105 needs 1.24 to comp right.

 

[DrHenley]

Thicker necks are a double edged sword.
...
If I had to be critical of of the 6.8 cases it would be the neck thickness varies.
...
Hardness: Damn these cases have got to have some of the hardest case heads and lower body area of any cases I have seen.

IIRC, Art told me that they used a harder alloy than normal cartridge brass so that the head could be thinner.

Overall I'm much happier with SSA brass than either Remington or Hornady, even though I can use Remington cases without turning. I do turn them sometimes just because of the variations in neck thickness. We probably should have specified a bit thicker neck walls on the 264 RLB when we spec'd the reamer. The only thing I had to base the specs on was ONE 6.8 SPC case that I had picked up off the range at Ft. Benning.... It wasn't an issue when all we had was Remington brass, but as soon as we tried to use Hornady brass we realized how tight the chamber neck was.

It was spec'd so close that a batch of 95 grain VMax's that were just slightly over caliber made the Remington necks too tight.

 

[Test_User]

IIRC, Art told me that they used a harder alloy than normal cartridge brass so that the head could be thinner.

Overall I'm much happier with SSA brass than either Remington or Hornady, even though I can use Remington cases without turning. I do turn them sometimes just because of the variations in neck thickness. We probably should have specified a bit thicker neck walls on the 264 RLB when we spec'd the reamer. The only thing I had to base the specs on was ONE 6.8 SPC case that I had picked up off the range at Ft. Benning.... It wasn't an issue when all we had was Remington brass, but as soon as we tried to use Hornady brass we realized how tight the chamber neck was.

It was spec'd so close that a batch of 95 grain VMax's that were just slightly over caliber made the Remington necks too tight.

Yep that is what I have found as well with the case necks and thickness. I can not really go into what Art does to his cases and I do not know it all but the end result is they are much harder that any other case I have tested. The old Lapuas may have been in the same range but he last couple years there stuff is softer. ARt also makes what has to be the best 308 cases. These are real match cases from my understanding. Very consistent thru out.

 

[Test_User]

36. .....................
Tim are you running 1.2410 for Re 10X heat in QL? maybe closer to 1.235 with most bullets but the GS 105 needs 1.24 to comp right.

I have to redo mine i will use your and see how it works out. I have been going thru and changing all of may using two different bullets to see it track and then find the best compromise. It does take some time but you can make QL very very accurate. What is best about adjasut the powder as long as you have the barrel croos section bore areas correct is that is really where the variation likely is. It casues all the other compuAtions to work and track correctly. If you try to fudge it other things get all screwed up. One thing to do if you nitce that saty 10x works best with one burn rate with one bullet and a differnte number with another bullet is created a second powder and name it the name plus the bullet. This allow you to hoine it in exactly and not have to comprimse at all even though its usally small. That maybe more woirk than is needed but something that is possible and I am starting to try. After all if you are going to shoot it and have the chron data anyways why not tweak it. Are you on version 3.3 or 3.4 of QL?