6.8 SPC Forums banner
1 - 20 of 23 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
565 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
OK, So I needed some accurate data for quickload so I can fine tune the thing a bit. I have a bunch of fired brass from all three manufacturers, and I grabbed random samples from each and measured case capacity in grains of water. heres how.

All cases were tumbled until clean then verified free from any media. each case was weighed empty then filled with and eye dropper til the water just barely humped over the rim. I kept the hump consistent across all the measurements. each case was weighed after filling then the difference was determined.

here are the results

Remington

average capacity = 35.95
Variance between case capacities = .7gr
variance between heaviest and lightest case weights measured DRY = 1.2gr
Average weight dry = 124.37
variance between heaviest and lightest case weights measured FULL = .7
average weight filled = 160.32

Hornady

average capacity = 35.33
Variance between case capacities = .7
variance between heaviest and lightest case weights measured DRY = .7gr
Average weight dry = 130.55
variance between heaviest and lightest case weights measured FULL = 1.0gr
average weight filled = 165.88

Silver State Armory

average capacity = 36.8
Variance between case capacities = 1.0gr
variance between heaviest and lightest case weights measured DRY = 6.2gr (yes thats right)
Average weight dry = 118.7
variance between heaviest and lightest case weights measured FULL = 5.5gr
average weight filled = 155.5

There was 11.87gr difference in dry weigh between the heaviest and lightest brass case averages.

case weights would seem to indicated brass thickness
case quantity variance indicates consistency of the combustion area

----

I'll let you draw your own conclusions on this. I will say that it appeared that each type of brass was fired from the same weapon, although it probably was different rifles for each brand of brass.

y impressions were that remington and Hornady were very consistent. when I saw the variance SSA was getting I actually doubled the sample size to verify.

I would caution anyone loading on the ragged edge to check your case weights on your brass. One grain difference in capacity can cause 3000 - 5000PSI difference between rounds. if you add in a couple tenths variance of powder loads, it could get dicey really quick.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
6,750 Posts
You must have some of the old thick SSA brass mixxed with the new thinner brass, there is quite a difference in the new and old but I would think a lot of all new brass would be much better.

I actually have 50 pieces of new unfired, primed, or prepped SSA brass I can weigh to see what the difference is in a single lot of new brass.

Back with results soon...
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
6,750 Posts
New SSA brass weight, 50 pieces avg and std dev.

115.7---- 117.2
116.6---- 116.1
116.8---- 116.3
116.0---- 116.5
116.2---- 115.7
116.0---- 116.5
116.3---- 116.1
116.9---- 116.9
116.5---- 116.5
116.7---- 115.5
116.5---- 115.8
116.6---- 115.4
116.2---- 117.0
115.7---- 116.0
116.4---- 115.1
117.3---- 116.7
116.4---- 116.5
117.0---- 115.9
116.1---- 116.2
117.9---- 116.1
115.1---- 115.7
116.3---- 116.7
117.0---- 115.9
117.1---- 116.6
115.8---- 117.2
116.44--116.24

50 case Avg. 116.34
Std. Dev. 0.575
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
565 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
thats much better. I was wondering why I was basically getting 2 different weight classes, didnt know about the new vs old.

This does underscoer the need to check your brass and separate it tho doesnt it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
839 Posts
I noticed my SSA cases, new, being lighter and smaller in diameter around the web than my Hornady brass. The SSA also shows more pressure "bulges" at the web than the Hornady brass does. Both may have great looking primers for pressure signs, and lack of any swipes, but my SSA almost always shows pressure bulges around the web area, even on some of the milder loads, more mild than the Hornady. Wish I could find more Hornady!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
212 Posts
You must have some of the old thick SSA brass mixxed with the new thinner brass, there is quite a difference in the new and old but I would think a lot of all new brass would be much better.

I actually have 50 pieces of new unfired, primed, or prepped SSA brass I can weigh to see what the difference is in a single lot of new brass.

Back with results soon...

How did you measure the water in the cases, with or without the primer and was the primer fired or not? If without the primer please explain. Thanks

AKsarben said:
I noticed my SSA cases, new, being lighter and smaller in diameter around the web than my Hornady brass. The SSA also shows more pressure "bulges" at the web than the Hornady brass does. Both may have great looking primers for pressure signs, and lack of any swipes, but my SSA almost always shows pressure bulges around the web area, even on some of the milder loads, more mild than the Hornady. Wish I could find more Hornady!
Hey AKsarben check EE towards the end of the month or first of next month, I have around 60-75 pieces of Hornady SRB & LRB and around 200 pieces of Remington LRB all once fired, tumbled, resized length/shoulder and chamfered in/out that I'm going to post to get rid of cause I'm sticking with SSA brass.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
839 Posts
This is why I have an issue with SSA brass. Piece above is Hornady brass, one below is SSA. Second picture is SSA but cropped in a little tighter. Notice the expansion at the web? It's even noticeable in a picture. Both primers and bottom of the case show absolutely no signs of excessive pressure. Hornady sides don't show it but the SSA sure do. I think the reason is because the brass is thinner. How else can you fit in more powder in the body of the case? I also noticed that the outside dimension of the SSA seemed to be a bit smaller than the Hornady, by a few thousands. Either I have a bad lot of brass, or most of the SSA brass is very thin walled.





I've talked with Art at SSA and he is kind of baffled about it. I even sent him samples out of my bag(lot). It's not very scientific, but when I load the same amount of powder in a smaller capacity case Hornady, I would expect the primer and side to show some higher pressure signs. They do not. In fact, the Hornady brass has rounded primers edges, and the side of the cases are not at all bulged like the SSA. This is an area of greater concern than the primer pocket area. You get too thin of a brass here and you risk a case head separation, and that ain't pretty. Case head fails, the resulting thrust back will ususally break the bolt and carrier, along with major damage to the upper and lower of the firearm and risk serious injury or death to the shooter.

I'm just not too sure how many more times I'm going to reload this SSA brass. I really don't have the instruments to meausre the thickness of the case wall at that point.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,082 Posts
Vern, I get that bulge every once in awhile with my SSA brass also. My Hornady and rem Brass never has it. I reloaded some once fiired SSA brass for Chuck, and out of 40 rounds I think he had 2 or 3 with the bulge. It would be interesting to find out what causes it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
839 Posts
deleted. Post I typed did not go though correctly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
212 Posts
I have this same marking on several of my SSA cases and wasn't sure what to make of them. I was leaning toward it being from a Hot load of 31grs. of H322 in my LWRC 1-10 twist barrel, but i'm not sure since I didn't notice it at the range to check the load with the case.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
6,750 Posts
How did you measure the water in the cases, with or without the primer and was the primer fired or not? If without the primer please explain. Thanks
I just weighed new brass straight from the bag, that is not fluid weight and fluid weight wouldn't be as consistent anyway because not every case would empty completely, some would have more stuck in the primer and others would hold a thicker film on the case walls. Fluid testing is for checking the difference in capacity of different brass(like between SSA & Hornady), I was simply weighing all the same brass which will have the same internal capacity so no fluid test.

I weighed just the brass for an overall average of weight of new SSA brass, the #'s could have been even closer probably if they where all trimmed to exact length but new SSA brass is shorter than trim length on most so I didn't bother trying to uniform anything, those are straight from SSA NIB brass.

I also have some new SSA brass with the bulge at the case head also but they are from max loads of 10X(31 gr's IIRC) that I tested last, the test loads with Benchmark didn't bulge any cases since it burns at a lower pressure.

Benchmark test coming soon on 90 & 100 gr bullets up to30.5 - 32 gr's(still below case neck at 32 gr's after vibrating the case to settle the powder).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
839 Posts
One of the things I've noticed is that SSA brass is smaller in diameter from the beginning than stuff like Hornady. Actual SAAMI specs show that the case should be 0.4207" at 0.200" from the rim face. I believe I have measured the SSA brass to be 0.4165" at the web area.

If the inside case capacity is larger (which it is from my measurements) and the case length is the same, but the web on SSA is thicker, than can only translate to one thing. The sides of the case have to be thinner. You cannot have the same thickness of brass with smaller outside diameter, thicker web and have the case body (wall) of the same thickenss. Weights of the difference in the SSA brass and the Hornady and Remington brass have shown that. If it was heat treated to harder then that would account for the fact that it is not returning to a smaller diameter, as I believe when it is fired, it expands to the inside chamber dimensions and moves very little back. It extracts ok, but why else would one have so much head expansion on the sides of the case at the web? Somewhere along the way, it will get work hardened and begin to crack.

It is cheaper per 100,000 pieces to make a cartridge if you use less brass. That's just an economic fact. Why they chose to make it so much smaller than others is really baffling.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,187 Posts
I have heard so many good things about SSA ammo but here letely i have heard alot of negative stuff, which is why i have held out on buying any and have been just buying Hornady ammo, so far i have 200 empties and 100, 110gr vmax's left to shoot up. im just about ready to start reloading as soon as i get some more bullets. for now i'm going to stick with Hornady.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
839 Posts
Don't forget to chamfer the primer pocket area a bit. Hornady has a tendency to crimp in the primer on their factory loaded ammo.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
22,312 Posts
I want to thank you guys...

I appreciate the way you're sharing your research of all these various facets of this caliber/platform ! I'm finding a LOT of my immediate questions addressed as I browse through the various threads and BBS's here at 68forums.

Although brand new here... I'm trying to read/absorb as much as I can, in as many topics as I can... instead of making the grand entrance and flooding everyone with the same ol' newbie questions that you're probably inundated with over and over again. :a04:

Carry on gents... you rock.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
565 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I have heard so many good things about SSA ammo but here letely i have heard alot of negative stuff, which is why i have held out on buying any and have been just buying Hornady ammo, so far i have 200 empties and 100, 110gr vmax's left to shoot up. im just about ready to start reloading as soon as i get some more bullets. for now i'm going to stick with Hornady.

I wouldnt throw the baby out with the bath water, but it's good to realize that no company is flawless, nor are they the ultimate evil.

SSA has doen a lot to respond to the 6.8 community, but there are also other companies that make perfectly good products and they deserve a chance at your money as well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,187 Posts
I wouldnt throw the baby out with the bath water, but it's good to realize that no company is flawless, nor are they the ultimate evil.

SSA has doen a lot to respond to the 6.8 community, but there are also other companies that make perfectly good products and they deserve a chance at your money as well.
I agree, i will buy some eventually, just waiting for the current issues to be resolved, such as primers blowing out, excessive wall distortion near the web, ect....

I'm a reloader so once i have my brass stock up i wont be buying much factory ammo.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
22,312 Posts
I agree, i will buy some eventually, just waiting for the current issues to be resolved, such as primers blowing out, excessive wall distortion near the web, ect....

I'm a reloader so once i have my brass stock up i wont be buying much factory ammo.
I'm fortunate enough to be trying to read up before I start buying... so, I'm hoping to make a good selection when the time comes and to buy up good brass for reloading.
 
1 - 20 of 23 Posts
Top