Agreed 29.5 gr of H322 fills a case pretty full when you are cramming a 110 AB or TSX in it, but dam it is irritating when your bullet gets stuck in the seating die. These are the only two bullets that make this happen. It does it in my 6.8, 30-06, .243. Every gun I load these rounds for they stick. I used one shot sprayed up in there, and tried rcbs lube rubbed onthe bullet. Does anyone who loads compressed loads know how aleviate this without switching powders, which is my next choice! Thanks
Bullet stuck in seating die
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
Joined
·
1,047 Posts
I have removed the seating stem from dies before and spun them in a drill while touching the interior of the stem with very fine
emery paper. I have heard of people sacrificing a bullet (the one that got stuck would be a good choice) and chucking it in a drill
and using a very mild abrasive to get the bullet to closely match the seating stem. Scope lapping coumpound would probably be
the harshest I would try, perhaps rubbing compound or JB's might work. The idea being to match the seating stem perfectly
with the bullet being seated. Another thing that could be causing this is too much neck tension on your brass. It should not take
much force to seat a bullet. You might try a larger expander in your resizing die or use an K&M Expandiron or Sinclair neck
turning mandrel, either one should leave you with around .002" neck tension which is plenty most of the time.
emery paper. I have heard of people sacrificing a bullet (the one that got stuck would be a good choice) and chucking it in a drill
and using a very mild abrasive to get the bullet to closely match the seating stem. Scope lapping coumpound would probably be
the harshest I would try, perhaps rubbing compound or JB's might work. The idea being to match the seating stem perfectly
with the bullet being seated. Another thing that could be causing this is too much neck tension on your brass. It should not take
much force to seat a bullet. You might try a larger expander in your resizing die or use an K&M Expandiron or Sinclair neck
turning mandrel, either one should leave you with around .002" neck tension which is plenty most of the time.
Have the used different brands of dies?
One Shot is the worst lube of all lubes IMO but you shouldn't need it anyhow so....
Where is the bullet getting stuck? As in what part of the bullet is binding?
Many of the seating stems of certain brand dies are not made to fit the pointed tip of certain bullet shapes. That is why I am wondering what part of the bullet is being pushed out of spec?
I don't think its neck tension unless its extreme and unlikely across different calibers. The AB has a BT which makes for easy seating even with heavy neck tension. .003-.004 is the lowest I woudl recommend for a AR or any gas gun. A bolt gun and .001-.002 will work even soft seating. Go that low in an AR and you do run a higher risk of setback. But I doubt very much this is it but I could be wrong.
The fact this is happening wiht multiple bullets in various calibers which means mutuple dies makes the issue a bit differnet. It is also with bullets of differnt tip design and hardness one solid copper one jacketed. This also measn different cases as well.
Could there be an issue with your press not being square or tracking correctly thur the cycle?
The common things seems to be compressed powder charges and the press. Everything else has variables. Possibly the same brand of die but most dies are quite good these days and the chances of the same issue acoss multiple calibers is small. This is what has me wondering about the press. With a compressed powder charge the bullet has greater force applied to it to seat. If the bullet is not seating striaght and possibliy being push in canted slightly it could casue it to bind in the die defomring it enough to jam it. If its a weaker press it maybe causing enough flex to casuae it as well.
It would take some testing to figure out what's going on.
One Shot is the worst lube of all lubes IMO but you shouldn't need it anyhow so....
Where is the bullet getting stuck? As in what part of the bullet is binding?
Many of the seating stems of certain brand dies are not made to fit the pointed tip of certain bullet shapes. That is why I am wondering what part of the bullet is being pushed out of spec?
I don't think its neck tension unless its extreme and unlikely across different calibers. The AB has a BT which makes for easy seating even with heavy neck tension. .003-.004 is the lowest I woudl recommend for a AR or any gas gun. A bolt gun and .001-.002 will work even soft seating. Go that low in an AR and you do run a higher risk of setback. But I doubt very much this is it but I could be wrong.
The fact this is happening wiht multiple bullets in various calibers which means mutuple dies makes the issue a bit differnet. It is also with bullets of differnt tip design and hardness one solid copper one jacketed. This also measn different cases as well.
Could there be an issue with your press not being square or tracking correctly thur the cycle?
The common things seems to be compressed powder charges and the press. Everything else has variables. Possibly the same brand of die but most dies are quite good these days and the chances of the same issue acoss multiple calibers is small. This is what has me wondering about the press. With a compressed powder charge the bullet has greater force applied to it to seat. If the bullet is not seating striaght and possibliy being push in canted slightly it could casue it to bind in the die defomring it enough to jam it. If its a weaker press it maybe causing enough flex to casuae it as well.
It would take some testing to figure out what's going on.
I would have thought not enough neck tension instead of too much. I blamed the compressed powder issue simply because on my starting loads it didn't happen at all. Also, even though it was prabably a bad idea to avoid the sticking, I would only push about half pressure which would seat the bullet half as far as I needed, then back it off and push again seating it alittle further each time. This worked ok until the last little bit. Then about half would stick trying to cram that last little .05". I was'nt surprised on the tsx as they are pretty soft, but i guess I was didn't think the ab's would do it also.
All dies are RCBS, except my 458S. It only happens on compressed loads with ab's and tsx's. Another thing is when one would stick I would have to use a new resized brass to pull it out, which would have no problem. Maybe Tim is right and when they seat they're alittle bit crooked deforming the case mouth just enough to where it won't hold on. The bullets stick about .05 above the cannelure. Thanks for the help guys.
All dies are RCBS, except my 458S. It only happens on compressed loads with ab's and tsx's. Another thing is when one would stick I would have to use a new resized brass to pull it out, which would have no problem. Maybe Tim is right and when they seat they're alittle bit crooked deforming the case mouth just enough to where it won't hold on. The bullets stick about .05 above the cannelure. Thanks for the help guys.
What cases are you using? Remington have an issue with thin necks whihc would give you very low neck tension.
What COAL are you loading to? Are you compressing so much that you are getting a ring on the bullet neck from the seater?
RCBS with the button on the stem usually set SSA cases at .003-.004 neck tension which shoudl be fine. You could try taking the button off the stem or the entire stem if needed which will increase the neck tension, It sure sounds by your desricption that the bullet is getting slgihtly out of align with the seater plunger. i would say it was the die if it was only one die but a few differnt sezating dies sounds like something else is the casue. Either to much compression or something with the press that is magnified by the extra force and pressure needed.
Sorry I can nto be more help. Seeing it woudl make all the dif
What COAL are you loading to? Are you compressing so much that you are getting a ring on the bullet neck from the seater?
RCBS with the button on the stem usually set SSA cases at .003-.004 neck tension which shoudl be fine. You could try taking the button off the stem or the entire stem if needed which will increase the neck tension, It sure sounds by your desricption that the bullet is getting slgihtly out of align with the seater plunger. i would say it was the die if it was only one die but a few differnt sezating dies sounds like something else is the casue. Either to much compression or something with the press that is magnified by the extra force and pressure needed.
Sorry I can nto be more help. Seeing it woudl make all the dif
Yes, the bullets have the ring marks when removed. I'm using SSA new brass. It was all i could do to get 2.28 without getting them stuck, and couldn't be done all with one push. I hope it is just a compression issue. I have never had a PH stick being shorter, i guess that makes sense. IIRC the 29.0s didn't do it as bad as the 29.5s. I just knew alot of you guys had loaded these loads before without mentiuon of any troubles. Maybe i'll go to RL7. It won't use as much room.
Joined
·
12 Posts
I have run into a situation very similar to yours and stopped the recurring bullet sticking by going to a bullet seating plunger that is a few thousanths larger (ie the next closest spire point bullet caliber). For the .277" that would be .284 or the 7mm caliber. It might be sacrilege to the handloading purists who are pursuing minimal bullet alignment runout (I can be that way at times.), but for the situation you describe, you can start a tray of handloads seated to a reasonable depth, then complete the seating process with the slightly larger bullet seater. Now all you have to do is get the bullet seater from a 7mm die set (RCBS like yours).
I loaded some 135gr smk with trail boss for sub-s yesterday and they all had the same ring on them as the ab's and tsx's did, however none of them stuck in the die. I guess my neck tension is ok since it is a decent push to start seating, just the force of trying to compress all that powder the other day was cuasing the issue.
Here is another question. When screwing your seating die down in the press. How far do you turn it down? I run the press up all the way. Then screw the die down unitl it touches the brass and set it there. Then adjust the stem to get my overall lenght. Is this how you guys set it up?
Here is another question. When screwing your seating die down in the press. How far do you turn it down? I run the press up all the way. Then screw the die down unitl it touches the brass and set it there. Then adjust the stem to get my overall lenght. Is this how you guys set it up?
Joined
·
1,047 Posts
It sounds like you are crimping your case too much. This could be the cause of your bullet ring from the seating stem. If you run the die all the way to the shell holder with the ram is in the up position you are definetly crimping your neck. If you use a seperate die (Lee Factory Crimp) there is no reason to apply any crimp when seating the bullet. Back your die out a half turn and then turn the seating stem in to get the same OAL that you using now. This should smooth things up.
If you are not using a seperate Lee factory crimp die simply back your current die out a little at a time until you get the amount of crimp you desire. A little at a time or you won't get any crimp at all. By the way, I never crimp because my dies give more than enough neck tension to hold the bullet without it.
If you are not using a seperate Lee factory crimp die simply back your current die out a little at a time until you get the amount of crimp you desire. A little at a time or you won't get any crimp at all. By the way, I never crimp because my dies give more than enough neck tension to hold the bullet without it.
Border, I had thought I wasn't going far enough. I run my die down until it barley touches the brass. It is a good 1/4" from the shell plate. I was wondering that if i didn't turn t he die down far enough to create that extra crimp like hold. I seat my round the way you do. Neck tension only. I was curious to see if any one thought turning down the die farther on the brass would help hold the bullet in. The only rounds I crimp are my 458s as I use lee dies and it is part of seating them. The rest of my dies are rcbs and either 6.8 which I have never crimped, or bolt guns. Any who my buddy has a 6.8 die I'm going to try just to see if maybe there is something wrong there. I will also try his rock chucker as Tim makes a very interesting point about my press. I will let you guys know how that goes, and thanks for the advice.It sounds like you are crimping your case too much. This could be the cause of your bullet ring from the seating stem. If you run the die all the way to the shell holder with the ram is in the up position you are definetly crimping your neck. If you use a seperate die (Lee Factory Crimp) there is no reason to apply any crimp when seating the bullet. Back your die out a half turn and then turn the seating stem in to get the same OAL that you using now. This should smooth things up.
If you are not using a seperate Lee factory crimp die simply back your current die out a little at a time until you get the amount of crimp you desire. A little at a time or you won't get any crimp at all. By the way, I never crimp because my dies give more than enough neck tension to hold the bullet without it.
Joined
·
6 Posts
I have the same issue with the same brand of dies and the same two bullet types. It only happens with compressed loads. The seating plug in my die set is a bit rough, and I think this is the problem. The extra pressure from seating the bullets over the compressed powder charge is enough to cause the bullets to stick in the rough seater plug. I have been meaning to polish the seater plug, or I may try Capt. Tyree's suggestion and order up a 7mm seating stem to see how that works. Hope you get your issue resolved.
That is what I was beginning to think when you mentioned you did get the ring. It sounds like the seating plunger cup is defective. If you are getting a ring even without highly compressed loads this certainly sounds like the case. the reason y9ou are likely getting stuck bullets as you hit compressed loads is you are now using that much more force and its being applied to the bullet by the stem causing the cup to cut even deeper into the bullet and either literally getting stuck on the bullet or displacing enough material to jam it.
The other possibility is that the case mouth it causing the extra force to be needed. What woudl cause this is if your die has a built in roll crimper like many seating dies do. If the die is set improperly it can cause issues. Such as if you set it too low it will set the crimp to deep and or too soon which would then creates a situation where seating could be an issue. To see this I woudl have to have it in front of me.
Honestly I would give RCBS a call. They have great CS and are usually very knowledgeable with things like this. If you take a look at the RCBS Reloading Dies Facts they have the following on the subject:
Q. When I seat the bullet, the seater plug cuts a ring around the bullet just below the nose. What causes this?
A. In short, the seater plug does not fit the bullet you are using. The seater plug furnished with the Seater Die normally will fit the great majority of the bullets for that particular caliber. However, we cannot make one seater plug fit all bullets currently available. If you experience this problem or any similar problem where the seater plug doesn't match the bullet and you wish to have a special seater plug made, we can supply one from the Special Order Department at minimum cost. See our Special Order Catalog for current pricing.
Q. What is the difference between a roll crimp and a taper crimp?
A. With a roll crimp the seater die actually rolls a very small portion of the case mouth into the bullet cannelure. If the seater die is set too low or the bullet does not have a cannelure, the die will attempt to form the crimp. However, it may turn too much of the case mouth in, or eliminate space to roll the neck into, which will distort or crush the case. The taper crimp die actually squeezes the case around the bullet. There should not be any indentation or other indication of a visible crimp. The die merely removes the bell from the case mouth that was used to ease seating of the bullet and pushes the case mouth parallel to the bullet. Anymore than that and the die begins to push down on the case wall and causes a bulge, preventing it from chambering.
Give them a call and see what they say and report back
The other possibility is that the case mouth it causing the extra force to be needed. What woudl cause this is if your die has a built in roll crimper like many seating dies do. If the die is set improperly it can cause issues. Such as if you set it too low it will set the crimp to deep and or too soon which would then creates a situation where seating could be an issue. To see this I woudl have to have it in front of me.
Honestly I would give RCBS a call. They have great CS and are usually very knowledgeable with things like this. If you take a look at the RCBS Reloading Dies Facts they have the following on the subject:
Q. When I seat the bullet, the seater plug cuts a ring around the bullet just below the nose. What causes this?
A. In short, the seater plug does not fit the bullet you are using. The seater plug furnished with the Seater Die normally will fit the great majority of the bullets for that particular caliber. However, we cannot make one seater plug fit all bullets currently available. If you experience this problem or any similar problem where the seater plug doesn't match the bullet and you wish to have a special seater plug made, we can supply one from the Special Order Department at minimum cost. See our Special Order Catalog for current pricing.
Q. What is the difference between a roll crimp and a taper crimp?
A. With a roll crimp the seater die actually rolls a very small portion of the case mouth into the bullet cannelure. If the seater die is set too low or the bullet does not have a cannelure, the die will attempt to form the crimp. However, it may turn too much of the case mouth in, or eliminate space to roll the neck into, which will distort or crush the case. The taper crimp die actually squeezes the case around the bullet. There should not be any indentation or other indication of a visible crimp. The die merely removes the bell from the case mouth that was used to ease seating of the bullet and pushes the case mouth parallel to the bullet. Anymore than that and the die begins to push down on the case wall and causes a bulge, preventing it from chambering.
Give them a call and see what they say and report back
Joined
·
1,047 Posts
If your die is a quarter inch from the shell plate you're die isn't supporting your case neck much if any. Seating dies need to be run down as far as possible to get minimum run out on the loaded round. This does not mean you have to crimp with it but you should be just shy of crimping so the case neck is fully supported in the die. I would adjust your die downward until the case mouth just begins to show a crimp, use a caliper/micrometer. Do this without any bullet in place. Then back it up 1/8 to 1/4 turn. This will help align the bullet better to the case.Border, I had thought I wasn't going far enough. I run my die down until it barley touches the brass. It is a good 1/4" from the shell plate. I was wondering that if i didn't turn t he die down far enough to create that extra crimp like hold. I seat my round the way you do. Neck tension only. I was curious to see if any one thought turning down the die farther on the brass would help hold the bullet in. The only rounds I crimp are my 458s as I use lee dies and it is part of seating them. The rest of my dies are rcbs and either 6.8 which I have never crimped, or bolt guns. Any who my buddy has a 6.8 die I'm going to try just to see if maybe there is something wrong there. I will also try his rock chucker as Tim makes a very interesting point about my press. I will let you guys know how that goes, and thanks for the advice.
Completely remove your seating die and chuck it in a drill. Don't put so much torque on the chuck that you damage any threads, you don't need that much tension. Now take a fine piece of emery cloth and polish the interior of your bullet seater until it's got a mirror like finish. Smoothing it out in this manner should help considerably.
That is why i only use match seating dies redding foster etc.. with micro meter as well. I do not want to have any dealings with crimps going on in there. I want my dies to only seat nothing else.
Same prob with Hornady dies
I have the same problem with bullets sticking in the seating die. Interestingly enough, only the Hornady BTHP 110 gr sticks in the Hornady Die--the Sierra Pro Hunter 110 gr works perfectly. Unfortunately I have a load of the H bullets on hand. Hornady is working on the problem--they seem to be very responsive--will report when and if they provide a solution.
I have the same problem with bullets sticking in the seating die. Interestingly enough, only the Hornady BTHP 110 gr sticks in the Hornady Die--the Sierra Pro Hunter 110 gr works perfectly. Unfortunately I have a load of the H bullets on hand. Hornady is working on the problem--they seem to be very responsive--will report when and if they provide a solution.
Funny I should see this post, just today when loading the 110gr TTSX loads the main reason I stopped at 29 gr's of 10X was I had to turn the micro adjuster down an extra .005" to get the same 2.30" seating depth and 4 out of the 5 rounds stuck in the Hornady seating stem and pulled the whole seating stem out when I lifted the handle back up(seating stem and guide are just held in by a little clip and falls out the bottom if pulled to hard or clip is damaged/removed).
So I figured that was a good sign that I was compressing the powder enough that the bullets were sticking in the stem and the extra .005" seating depth to hold the same COL even with .003-4" neck tension. All the other loads were compressed as well, just the 29 gr load seemed really compressed(SSA SP brass). I don't see how you guys get 29.5+ in their, maybe I'm just still new and don't know what a real compressed load feels like but the crunching sound usually gives it away.:a36:
So I figured that was a good sign that I was compressing the powder enough that the bullets were sticking in the stem and the extra .005" seating depth to hold the same COL even with .003-4" neck tension. All the other loads were compressed as well, just the 29 gr load seemed really compressed(SSA SP brass). I don't see how you guys get 29.5+ in their, maybe I'm just still new and don't know what a real compressed load feels like but the crunching sound usually gives it away.:a36:
That's a head-scratcher. I easily get 30.5 gr of H322 in under a 110 gr SPH. Having said that, even though H322 granules are short, it is still a stick propellant. I find that pouring the propellant slowly, allowing the granules to orient as they accumulate, results in 30.5 grains still coming to rest at or below the bottom of the case neck, about where a Sierra ProHunter's base ends when I seat to 2.290" or so.Funny I should see this post, just today when loading the 110gr TTSX loads the main reason I stopped at 29 gr's of 10X was I had to turn the micro adjuster down an extra .005" to get the same 2.30" seating depth and 4 out of the 5 rounds stuck in the Hornady seating stem and pulled the whole seating stem out when I lifted the handle back up(seating stem and guide are just held in by a little clip and falls out the bottom if pulled to hard or clip is damaged/removed).
So I figured that was a good sign that I was compressing the powder enough that the bullets were sticking in the stem and the extra .005" seating depth to hold the same COL even with .003-4" neck tension. All the other loads were compressed as well, just the 29 gr load seemed really compressed(SSA SP brass). I don't see how you guys get 29.5+ in their, maybe I'm just still new and don't know what a real compressed load feels like but the crunching sound usually gives it away.:a36:
If I just dump the propellant fast, it takes up a lot more room. If you've already addressed this, then that tell-tale crunching sound is definitely unexpected...unless your TTSX is a lot longer, extending down into the shoulder area of the case (I wouldn't know, I haven't tried them). The 115 gr FMC Remington bullets I use have to be seated deeper (OAL 2.214, IIRC) in order to avoid engaging the lands on a DMR-C chamber, so they'd never fit on top of 30 gr of H322 (probably a grain-too-hot loading anyway).
FWIW, while 30.5gr did not show swipes on SSA-SP cases with the Prohunters, I did drop it a little to 30.3 gr.
Yes the TTSX is a much longer bullet, I shoot 29 gr's of H322 under Nosler Accubonds with only slight swipes(before reaming the chamber, haven't tested since). The 29gr load of 10X is also only right at the bottom of the case neck but as a comparison a 110gr Nosler Accubond is ~1.115" long, a 110gr TSX is ~1.085", and a 110gr TTSX is ~1.170". So the TTSX is .085" longer than a TSX and .055" longer than a Accubond of the same weight, so yes were dealing with more than just a few thousandths of an inch when loading them so the are a much more compressed load than most other 110gr bullets at even the starting charge of 27 gr's.That's a head-scratcher. I easily get 30.5 gr of H322 in under a 110 gr SPH. Having said that, even though H322 granules are short, it is still a stick propellant. I find that pouring the propellant slowly, allowing the granules to orient as they accumulate, results in 30.5 grains still coming to rest at or below the bottom of the case neck, about where a Sierra Pro Hunter's base ends when I seat to 2.290" or so.
If I just dump the propellant fast, it takes up a lot more room. If you've already addressed this, then that tell-tale crunching sound is definitely unexpected...unless your TTSX is a lot longer, extending down into the shoulder area of the case (I wouldn't know, I haven't tried them). The 115 gr FMC Remington bullets I use have to be seated deeper (OAL 2.214, IIRC) in order to avoid engaging the lands on a DMR-C chamber, so they'd never fit on top of 30 gr of H322 (probably a grain-too-hot loading anyway).
FWIW, while 30.5gr did not show swipes on SSA-SP cases with the Pro hunters, I did drop it a little to 30.3 gr.
Joined
·
1 Posts
I know this is an old thread but its a new problem for me. My 110gr Nosler accubonds are sticking with 29gr of R10x in rcbs dies. Have there been any fixes for this in the last 2 years?
The best thing to do is send your seater plug and a bullet to RCBS and let them cut the seater plug to fit the bullet, the generic design they use works OK with most bullet but not all bullets and especially when seating on top of really compressed loads.
If you want you can take a bullet and chuck it in a drill and cover the ogive in metal polish paste or lapping compound and try to polish the inside of your seater plug yourself, if the plug is not to hard it should smooth out and take some shape of the bullet. Worst thing that can/will happen is you'll ruin the bullet, the bullet is to soft to do any real damage to the seater plug but it may help.
This is the info from Lee's site but I know RCBS does this as well, you'll just have to give them a call.
If you want you can take a bullet and chuck it in a drill and cover the ogive in metal polish paste or lapping compound and try to polish the inside of your seater plug yourself, if the plug is not to hard it should smooth out and take some shape of the bullet. Worst thing that can/will happen is you'll ruin the bullet, the bullet is to soft to do any real damage to the seater plug but it may help.
This is the info from Lee's site but I know RCBS does this as well, you'll just have to give them a call.
PISTOL AND RIFLE: Bullet Seating Plug
The bullet seater plug that comes with the die set is as close to generic as we can make it. If you find that the bullet seater plug deforms the nose of the bullet you are trying to seat, we can make a custom bullet seater plug to fit your bullet.
We need:
Payment of $13.00 ($8.00 + $5.00 processing fee)
1 sample bullet
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
- This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
6.8 SPC Forums
A forum community dedicated to 6.8 SPC firearm owners and enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more!
Full Forum Listing
Recommended Communities
Join now to ask and comment!
