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Black hole or Triad

6621 Views 27 Replies 16 Participants Last post by  sreyemj
I was wondering what the difference was between the Blackhole three land Polygonal rifling and the Triad Hybrid 3R rifling ?
Thanks, Joe
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Info so you can decide

here is a pic of 5R

Here is a pic of true polygonal


question lies if the "polygonal" rifling is a true polygonal (check with the manufacture to see if it is a true poly rifling)--- I have seen some debate on weather certain companies make a "true polygonal" rifling even though they are advertised that way

a true polygonal has no sharp edges--- the "R" style has sloped edges

the "3" lands and grooves distort the bullet less than any other style rifling, seal chamber gasses better, and have less engraving force and "internal friction" on the bullet so they often produce slightly higher muzzle velocities and slightly less chamber pressures

some people say that the polygonal rifling can be slightly less accurate but I'm not sure that has been proven--- as far as I know the only 2 companies that sell barrels with the poly rifling are BHW and Lothar Walther, both of which seem to have a history of being accurate barrels --- the new Triad barrel from ARP has shown to be very accurate and have all of the characteristics I listed above for 3 land/groove barrels--- In my opinion, the Melonite coating adds to the list of benefits for the ARP barrel as it tends to show less pressure, and more velocity than non melonite barrels --- ARP are usually less in price that the BHW and LW barrels also

You should also research the land to grove ratio if you want to know all the in's and out's of the rifling-- as some of the manufactures use deeper grove or a wider land than others
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here is a pic of 5R

Here is a pic of true polygonal


question lies if the "polygonal" rifling is a true polygonal (check with the manufacture to see if it is a true poly rifling)--- I have seen some debate on weather certain companies make a "true polygonal" rifling even though they are advertised that way

a true polygonal has no sharp edges--- the "R" style has sloped edges

the "3" lands and grooves distort the bullet less than any other style rifling, seal chamber gasses better, and have less engraving force and "internal friction" on the bullet so they often produce slightly higher muzzle velocities and slightly less chamber pressures

some people say that the polygonal rifling can be slightly less accurate but I'm not sure that has been proven--- as far as I know the only 2 companies that sell barrels with the poly rifling are BHW and Lothar Walther, both of which seem to have a history of being accurate barrels --- the new Triad barrel from ARP has shown to be very accurate and have all of the characteristics I listed above for 3 land/groove barrels--- In my opinion, the Melonite coating adds to the list of benefits for the ARP barrel as it tends to show less pressure, and more velocity than non melonite barrels --- ARP are usually less in price that the BHW and LW barrels also

You should also research the land to grove ratio if you want to know all the in's and out's of the rifling-- as some of the manufactures use deeper grove or a wider land than others
What about the chambers ? The Blackhole is the 6.8SPC ll, and the Triad lists 6.8 ARP. similar to the 223 Wylde. From what I've read about the different chambers, I'd think the ARP chamber would be the way to go, if it's akin to the Wylde 223 chamber. Not saying anything bad about Blackhole ! I have one of their 6x45's and it's a shooter !
What about the chambers ? The Blackhole is the 6.8SPC ll, and the Triad lists 6.8 ARP. similar to the 223 Wylde. From what I've read about the different chambers, I'd think the ARP chamber would be the way to go, if it's akin to the Wylde 223 chamber. Not saying anything bad about Blackhole ! I have one of their 6x45's and it's a shooter !
ARP takes the 6.8 to a higher level than the rest. Beyond optimal.
The Black Hole is a true polygonal rifling as shown in the diagram. Velocities tend to be higher than the more standard style rifling. Copper fouling is reduced and cleaning is very essy. Accuracy is outstanding with these barrels.

Greg
The Black Hole is a true polygonal rifling as shown in the diagram. Velocities tend to be higher than the more standard style rifling. Copper fouling is reduced and cleaning is very essy. Accuracy is outstanding with these barrels.

Greg
could you get these melonited.
could you get these melonited.
Unfortunately the high temperature for that process ruins the hardness of the steel so it is not recommended.

Greg
Unfortunately the high temperature for that process ruins the hardness of the steel so it is not recommended.

Greg
so you are saying that melonite is not recommended for barrels?
so you are saying that melonite is not recommended for barrels?
And subscribed.

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.....................
so you are saying that melonite is not recommended for barrels?
No not at all. Just that these stainless ones do not do well with the high temps that some use exceeding the level that ruins the hardness. There is only a narrow band where too much is too much and a large batch were ruined by an aftermarket user per the owner Carl. There can be a decrease in the corrosion resistance also. Meloniting is a good treatment for barrels but doing it with the extension in place can cause problems and obviously unscrewing them is not a good option for fitment.

I would recommend you contact Carl at Columbia River Arms and he would be glad to discuss it with you as he knows metallurgy far better than I ever will. [email protected]

Greg
2 Cents worth

I have about 10 ARP barrels, shot one of the new Triads that I helped a friend build, 4 shots under an inch and wasn't trying 2750fps with factory Vmax. I was just shooting for the speed through the chrono. I now want one of my own.
I've used and sold enough ARP to say they make good stuff. H is here a lot and will solve any problems within his control.

The only other AR barrel I'd use would be something custom, last I checked was around $600 with the blank and machine work.
I would have to say Triad. I recently bought a 20" triad to use for hunting. While zeroing I (by mistake) shot a 1/2" group of three.Hand loaded 120sst.

RJ
Stainless barrel steel is 28-32 Rockwell. After Melonite treatment the surface apx .005-.008" deep is around 60 Rockwell. The core between the bore and outside surface remains 28-32 Rockwell just like the 4150 barrels. Hard surface, ductile core.
Melonite treating stainless kills the natural corrosion resistance that stainless has but Melonite becomes the new corrosion resistant finish.
Barrel extensions MUST be torqued after Melonite treatment.
Trying to through harden stainless like normal heat treat is a bad idea, it becomes more brittle than it already is . They have been saying not to shoot stainless barrels in extreme cold for decades.
...snip...
The only other AR barrel I'd use would be something custom, last I checked was around $600 with the blank and machine work.
FYI, Frank White at Compass Lake Engineering will chamber a stainless blank in 6.8 and profile it to your custom specs for closer to $400. I am working up loads for one he made for me in .223 Wylde and so far the accuracy is top notch. I would have bought a 4150 steel barrel from ARP but he didn't have the length and heavy profile I wanted (22"L x 1.00/.875/.840"OD, weight 4 lbs) - CW

http://www.compasslake.com/index.php?main_page=index
I have a 18" PacNor/ARP from 2009 that shoots real good, that is as custom as I will get in 6.8. Anything else would be another caliber with a Hawk Hill blank.
I just wanted to state that i didn't mean this thread to become "which" one is better ! I only was wondering the difference between the two different rifling styles and chambers. I have both, and depending on the day, time or weather, I'd buy either one. And will ! Just saying you can't go wrong with either.

Joe
ARP has proven time and again to be the superior choice for 6.8. I just ordered a 20" stainless Triad. Can't beat 'em.
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