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Any SIG Types Around Here?

682 Views 27 Replies 4 Participants Last post by Ratdog68, 7 d ago

Ratdog68

Discussion Starter · 19 d ago

I've been snooping around to see if I can find out differences between a Sig P220 with an Internal Extractor and a P220 with an External Extractor, why the change from one to the other, and which one seems to be preferred, and which one is an older rendition.

Things I've learned today:
1. P220R denotes a rail
2. Some (early, I think I saw) are a stamped steel, two piece slide (carbon steel I believe). Some are Stainless and one piece slides.
3. There does not appear to be a web site to help you to learn about what you're looking at by serial number, or even for certain what year it was built (per say). I have seen where on one of the Sig specific forums you can post what you have (sharing a partial serial number), state the year of the gun... but you're going by the word of a forum participant.
4. How the make/model/country of origin (built) is located on the slide doesn't appear to have too much meaning, although it seems to vary.
5. Without the factory box/label/owners manual, one isn't sure how to learn more about a specific piece.
6. "Legion" models have a beaver tail. "Standard" models do not.
7. "Legion" are said to have an undercut trigger guard. "Standard" do not However, what about ones which do not have a beaver tail, but DO have an undercut trigger guard?
8. "Legion" seem to have that identifier engraved into the top of the slide behind the ejection port (at least on one I saw)
9. "Elite" seems to be a "Standard", but with wooden grips, rather than plastic ones. Any other differences?

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Nontypical

· #2 · 19 d ago (Edited)

I’ll see if I can elaborate, although it seems as though you’re pretty spot on.
1. Correct. R usually stands for rail.
2. The early German made slides were folded carbon steel. The US made slides are milled stainless steel.
3. If the weapon was produced after 2005, a call to Sig CS should be able to tell you everything about it. Prior to that, a box label is best as Sig US does not have records from Germany.
4. Different slide markings can help identify different time periods of production.
5. There’s another forum just like this one with a ton of knowledge to help learn about a specific piece. SigTalk.com There’s a lot of good people over there. It should also be noted that the box label is probably the most important identifier of unique, older items
6. Legions actually have a reduced beaver tail. Some models have come with a full size beaver tail, which is quite pronounced.
7. I’m not sure which model comes with no tail and the undercut trigger…
8. All of the new Legions are also now coming optic ready.
9. All legions come with 3 mags, X-ray 3 sights, and Hogue G10 grips which are a huge improvement over the wood or E2 grips. Legions also have an improved trigger over the basic models.
10. Sig Sauer has an Armed Professionals Program that gives nice discounts and also allows you to purchase an all black Nitron coated Legion. A beautiful weapon available in P220, P226, and P229.

Hope this helps some Ratdog. Let me know if I can answer any more questions.

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Ratdog68

Discussion Starter · #3 · 19 d ago

My main question is why Internal and External extractor models? Is it simply a preference thing? Was there problems with one, so a change was needed? If so, what was the problem causing the change? Thus, is one more desirable than the other?

BTW... with MTG's submission of articles of impeachment for a list of characters (on or about the 18th), including "Brandon", righting Old Glory may be forthcoming.

Reactions: 1

Nontypical

· #4 · 19 d ago

From what I can tell, all of the folded steel slides came with an internal extractor. The milled stainless slides may have come with either.
I believe it is more of a preference thing. I did do a search on SigTalk and there were many opinions on the subject. Here is a quote from one of the very knowledgeable members on that subject as he can explain it much better than I can.

Willard said:
The biggest takeaway, is that "internal" extractors are essentially "spring" tempered, therefore more expensive to manufacture. A MIM extractor with a separate coil spring(s) is cheaper to manufacture.

An internal extractor, if used as designed, can last for thousands of rounds before replacement if used correctly. Those who drop a round in the chamber, and let the slide slam shut, requires the extractor hook to "jump" the case rim, which it's not designed to do. The internal extractors aren't designed to pivot outward and will eventually chip the hook, making extraction difficult. The external extractors are more forgiving, as they "can" pivot some, although extractor hooks are designed to slide into the cartridge's extractor groove when loading from the magazine.

Replacements for the internal extractor system, are few and far between. Since that system had been replaced around 10 years or so since the last units produced, in the first stainless P220 slides. They used a different internal design than the earlier folded carbon steel slides, which had 2 versions, the 9mm and .45ACP, which used different bends prior to tempering, the stainless slides used a different means of attachment.

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Ratdog68

Discussion Starter · #5 · 19 d ago

Thank you very big. With that info, I'll be careful to not drop a round into the chamber and release the slide then. Years ago a very close friend of mine acquired it, after his death, I did. It came with no box, just a few extra mags, but I'd be surprised if it's had even one box of ammo run through it. P220R with a SS slide, internal extractor, undercut trigger guard, and came with wood grips. I put a Crimson Trace grip on it a number of years ago, the 3-dot are probably tritium but have lost their glow. My older eyeballs appreciate lasers. LOL Still have yet to take it to the range, but intend to.

I'm more of a 1911 guy, but this is a quality side arm, in the right caliber for my taste too. Now, I just need to put my hands on that Vedder holster I bought for it a few years ago. I've never been a Kydex fan, but the Vedder has changed my mind. I've always been a leather fan.

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Nontypical

· #6 · 19 d ago

Any pics?

Devil Phish

· #7 · 18 d ago

I have a Sig P220 Carry DAK with internal extractor and is stainless slide. I have not seen any issues with dropping a round in but I normally just use a mag to put round in as I have seen quite a few 1911's extractors break so just nature of habit. On a side note I picked this up for a paltry 450 bucks with 6 mags.

Air gun Trigger Wood Gun barrel Gun accessory

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Devil Phish

· #8 · 18 d ago

Ratdog68 said:
Thank you very big. With that info, I'll be careful to not drop a round into the chamber and release the slide then. Years ago a very close friend of mine acquired it, after his death, I did. It came with no box, just a few extra mags, but I'd be surprised if it's had even one box of ammo run through it. P220R with a SS slide, internal extractor, undercut trigger guard, and came with wood grips. I put a Crimson Trace grip on it a number of years ago, the 3-dot are probably tritium but have lost their glow. My older eyeballs appreciate lasers. LOL Still have yet to take it to the range, but intend to.

I'm more of a 1911 guy, but this is a quality side arm, in the right caliber for my taste too. Now, I just need to put my hands on that Vedder holster I bought for it a few years ago. I've never been a Kydex fan, but the Vedder has changed my mind. I've always been a leather fan.

I like leather and use strictly Simply Rugged holsters. You will find that Sig should put a big ragged hole and kinda surprised you hadn't shot it yet.

Ratdog68

Discussion Starter · #9 · 18 d ago

Nontypical said:
Any pics?

Not yet, I need to rectify that.

Devil Phish said:
I like leather and use strictly Simply Rugged holsters. You will find that Sig should put a big ragged hole and kinda surprised you hadn't shot it yet.

Me too. Last few times I went to the range it was all about giving some kids a chance to experience some trigger time. Had a little niece, who when she was little, was terrified of the idea of someone having a gun on them. She didn't realize that a couple of her uncles were always armed and that her grandfather was as well. As she got older her grandfather and I teamed up and would take her and one of her cousins to the range from time to time. Her cousin liked guns, but was afraid of recoil. I think his dad (a jerk) had started him out on a .308 when he was little (money was not an excuse either). Mikaela loved my .22 rifles, and really enjoyed the ARs. She was getting to where she was even on paper consistently with the 5.56 (A2), but really liked my 6.8 (scoped). My range buddy Mikaela lost her battle with cancer a couple of years ago at 25 years old. I just haven't been to the range in a long time, especially just to settle in and have some trigger time. Too many bumps in life's road the last decade.

My last range day was before a Mule deer trip to Montana with Mikaela's grandfather (out last time hunting together). I'd done a little work on my .30-06 and needed to prove it before taking it out. It might shoot as well as my ARP 6.8 these days. The Mule deer buck would agree. A year after we lost Mikaela, her grandfather lost his cancer battle too.

I've got a few that need some use-worthy proving.

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BugOnPoint

· #10 · 18 d ago

Ratdog - sounds like you have a bumpy road the last few years, sorry to hear that.

For what its worth, here is mine, with the box markings, HJas the beaver tail and undercut trigger guard, but is not a Legion. As to the slide - it is milled, but is magnetic, so not sure if its stainless. The box is dated January 27, 2012.

Air gun Trigger Gun barrel Wood Gun accessory

Shoe Font Human leg Personal protective equipment Foot

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Devil Phish

· #11 · 18 d ago

Ratdog68 said:
Not yet, I need to rectify that.

Me too. Last few times I went to the range it was all about giving some kids a chance to experience some trigger time. Had a little niece, who when she was little, was terrified of the idea of someone having a gun on them. She didn't realize that a couple of her uncles were always armed and that her grandfather was as well. As she got older her grandfather and I teamed up and would take her and one of her cousins to the range from time to time. Her cousin liked guns, but was afraid of recoil. I think his dad (a jerk) had started him out on a .308 when he was little (money was not an excuse either). Mikaela loved my .22 rifles, and really enjoyed the ARs. She was getting to where she was even on paper consistently with the 5.56 (A2), but really liked my 6.8 (scoped). My range buddy Mikaela lost her battle with cancer a couple of years ago at 25 years old. I just haven't been to the range in a long time, especially just to settle in and have some trigger time. Too many bumps in life's road the last decade.

My last range day was before a Mule deer trip to Montana with Mikaela's grandfather (out last time hunting together). I'd done a little work on my .30-06 and needed to prove it before taking it out. It might shoot as well as my ARP 6.8 these days. The Mule deer buck would agree. A year after we lost Mikaela, her grandfather lost his cancer battle too.

I've got a few that need some use-worthy proving.

Very understandable as life throws a curve into your way. You are not alone either but must cherished with memories. I get a sleepless from pasts which gets me to out in the night hunting. It never goes away tho.

Devil Phish

· #12 · 18 d ago

BugOnPoint said:
Ratdog - sounds like you have a bumpy road the last few years, sorry to hear that.

For what its worth, here is mine, with the box markings, HJas the beaver tail and undercut trigger guard, but is not a Legion. As to the slide - it is milled, but is magnetic, so not sure if its stainless. The box is dated January 27, 2012.
View attachment 79652

View attachment 79653

Look on the other side of slide it should say stainless. I am pretty sure almost all were.

Ratdog68

Discussion Starter · #13 · 18 d ago

Here's what I've found as having the beavertail.

Air gun Trigger Gun barrel Gun accessory Metal

Mine's more this style with a more standard tail and undercut trigger guard.

Air gun Trigger Grey Gun barrel Gun accessory

What got me searching yesterday was options for an extended mag release and how to swap it out. There is one available, but just the replacement piece is over $60. Pretty simple to swap out on them. Just need to be mindful of some springs/detents which may want to jump out at you if not paying attention.

I really like the Crimson Trace grips for it. Not as much as I like the ones for the 1911 (pressure switch on the front strap). The ones for the Sig are on each side, just forward of the CTC logo.

Trigger Air gun Gun barrel Gun accessory Airsoft gun

I need to shoot some pix of mine, and then SHOOT mine. LOL

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BugOnPoint

· #14 · 18 d ago

Devil Phish said:
Look on the other side of slide it should say stainless. I am pretty sure almost all were.

Nope - just says Sig Sauer P 220

Ratdog68

Discussion Starter · #15 · 18 d ago

Mine says "Stainless" on the left side of the slide, behind Sig P220. It's odd how there's so many variations of engravings and their locations.

Reactions: 1

BugOnPoint

· #16 · 18 d ago

Ratdog68 said:
Here's what I've found as having the beavertail.

View attachment 79654

Mine's more this style with a more standard tail and undercut trigger guard.

View attachment 79655

What got me searching yesterday was options for an extended mag release and how to swap it out. There is one available, but just the replacement piece is over $60. Pretty simple to swap out on them. Just need to be mindful of some springs/detents which may want to jump out at you if not paying attention.

I really like the Crimson Trace grips for it. Not as much as I like the ones for the 1911 (pressure switch on the front strap). The ones for the Sig are on each side, just forward of the CTC logo.

View attachment 79656

I need to shoot some pix of mine, and then SHOOT mine. LOL

That's a big beaver tail. I guess mine is more "standard".

Reactions: 2

Ratdog68

Discussion Starter · #17 · 18 d ago

Otay, took some pix of mine, a duty size not a compact:

Wood Air gun Gun barrel Trigger Everyday carry

Air gun Trigger Line Gun barrel Everyday carry

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Nontypical

· #18 · 18 d ago (Edited)

BugOnPoint said:
That's a big beaver tail. I guess mine is more "standard".

Yours actually has no tail. And it is definitely stainless.

Nontypical

· #19 · 18 d ago

Ratdog68 said:
Otay, took some pix of mine, a duty size not a compact:

View attachment 79658
View attachment 79657

Beautiful weapon and it appears to be around 2005-06 vintage.

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Ratdog68

Discussion Starter · #20 · 18 d ago

Thanks. Agreed, I saw one post on Sig Forums that had a G 368 XXX being a 2005 model, sort of guessed mine was in that general vintage as well.

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