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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey guys, I'm starting up a bolt action build and need some advice on the details. I've got a Stiller Precision Tac 300 action on order. What I need guidance in is picking a precision barrel manufacturer and what specs I should look for. It's gonna be a flutted Rem 700 bull barrel in .300 Win Mag. I've picked out the TAC21 chassis system but also want to see other tactical or thumb-hole chassis systems. What I'm needing to know most is a great manufacturer to buy from, barrel length, twist rate and any other details necessary to get the best out of the .300 Win Mag. The barrel will also be wearing a Crux muzzle brake and suppressor.
 

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Krieger would be a solid choice for a barrel but there are several other great choices including BRUX.
The McCree precision stocks are NICE, I was a bit turned off by them just looking on the website until I got to actually handle and shoot a 260AI sitting in one.
There is also the option of running a REMAGE set up considering the barrel life of the 300WM if you shoot a lot or setting it up as a switch barrel with a 7mm Remmy mag.
 

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To answer your first question about the barrel. Kreiger and Brux are basically the same end result, but Kreiger will take a few months longer. Barrel length is usually around 26 inches unless you are going for that shorter tactical look, or you need to achieve a certain Vel from a bullet. Twist is the standard 1:10". My 26" Brux gets around 2920fps with a 190gr berger. If you plan on doing the long range game mostly look at the 215 hybrids. As for Powder H1000, and Fed 215m primers. This combo keeps me with an ES around 12 FPS. Try and find some new RWS brass. Once Lapua stopping selling 300WM brass, ya I know Norma made it but to Lapua specs, RWS is the brass to use if you can find it. BIG TIME REMEMBER THIS if you find some. RWS brass is much thicker than other cases and you should use 3-4 grains less.

Second question is, what is the intended use for this rifle. It sounds like you are leaning towards the Precision Tactical arena. If this is the case, and you would consider some very humble advise, you might look at another caliber like a 6.5 Creedmore, or a 260 (better barrel life). Main reason is, a 300WM has a very healthy recoil regardless of your break. So unless you are going to plan on building a very heavy rifle to counter act the recoil, you will loose sight of your target and will not see your hits on target. If keeping your sight on target is not a concern of yours then a 300WM is a great rifle.

The only other suggestion I would have for you is get Jewel Trigger, and make sure you find some lower metal and a mag that will work for the intended bullet you plan on using.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
To answer your first question about the barrel. Kreiger and Brux are basically the same end result, but Kreiger will take a few months longer. Barrel length is usually around 26 inches unless you are going for that shorter tactical look, or you need to achieve a certain Vel from a bullet. Twist is the standard 1:10". My 26" Brux gets around 2920fps with a 190gr berger. If you plan on doing the long range game mostly look at the 215 hybrids. As for Powder H1000, and Fed 215m primers. This combo keeps me with an ES around 12 FPS. Try and find some new RWS brass. Once Lapua stopping selling 300WM brass, ya I know Norma made it but to Lapua specs, RWS is the brass to use if you can find it. BIG TIME REMEMBER THIS if you find some. RWS brass is much thicker than other cases and you should use 3-4 grains less.

Second question is, what is the intended use for this rifle. It sounds like you are leaning towards the Precision Tactical arena. If this is the case, and you would consider some very humble advise, you might look at another caliber like a 6.5 Creedmore, or a 260 (better barrel life). Main reason is, a 300WM has a very healthy recoil regardless of your break. So unless you are going to plan on building a very heavy rifle to counter act the recoil, you will loose sight of your target and will not see your hits on target. If keeping your sight on target is not a concern of yours then a 300WM is a great rifle.

The only other suggestion I would have for you is get Jewel Trigger, and make sure you find some lower metal and a mag that will work for the intended bullet you plan on using.
My intended purpose is long range tactical and sport. I consider the significant recoil, I'm building this with an aluminum chassis and bull barrel and expect it to be hefty. I was thinking 24 or 26" length and o see these manufacturers using 1:11 twist as a standard. I will probably shoot 180s or 190s at 800-1000 yards. Any opinions on Hart or McGowen barrels?
 

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My intended purpose is long range tactical and sport. I consider the significant recoil, I'm building this with an aluminum chassis and bull barrel and expect it to be hefty. I was thinking 24 or 26" length and o see these manufacturers using 1:11 twist as a standard. I will probably shoot 180s or 190s at 800-1000 yards. Any opinions on Hart or McGowen barrels?
Ill be very honest, once you get up into the area of Kreiger, Brux, Hart they are all going to be the same thing. The only way you would truly be able to tell the difference is to go full bench rest set up, and then your really starting to split hairs. Any of those barrel will go 0.5 MOA or better. If you are using heavier bullets you will want to go the 1:10 twist. For 800-1000 yards I would go no less than 190gr. If you look at the BC and then do all the math you will start to see the advantage in drift at the longer ranges. Once you get your rifle all together, just give the 215's a go. I will promise you won't regret it. Its all in the numbers once you start hitting 700 yards and further. The only reason I don't use the 215's is because this retarded state I live in is going all nonleaded ammo for hunting by 2018, and I need to look at some of the Cutting Edge bullets for here in CA. My bullets have duel use for hunting and shooting at steel/rocks.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Ill be very honest, once you get up into the area of Kreiger, Brux, Hart they are all going to be the same thing. The only way you would truly be able to tell the difference is to go full bench rest set up, and then your really starting to split hairs. Any of those barrel will go 0.5 MOA or better. If you are using heavier bullets you will want to go the 1:10 twist. For 800-1000 yards I would go no less than 190gr. If you look at the BC and then do all the math you will start to see the advantage in drift at the longer ranges. Once you get your rifle all together, just give the 215's a go. I will promise you won't regret it. Its all in the numbers once you start hitting 700 yards and further. The only reason I don't use the 215's is because this retarded state I live in is going all nonleaded ammo for hunting by 2018, and I need to look at some of the Cutting Edge bullets for here in CA. My bullets have duel use for hunting and shooting at steel/rocks.
1:10 makes sense, I just realized that I had been thinking backward about the twist. And as you said about brand name I figured as much.
 

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When you say sniper what do you mean? is this for your job? LEO, swat, Mil members have nice discounts for department or personal buy on built systems.
Krieger, Lothar Walter, Bartlein, Scheneider, Rock... all amazing barrels...
In terms of building on hight end budget my advice would be: Don't. Have someone build one to your specs and be done. I built some of mine and I am not saving any money and I have a nice lathe, mill and other tools
most people don't have. Don't use the TAC21 chasis. It doesn't yield repeatable accuracy. If you must have a tube gun check out the Eliseo that mount a lot stronger but imo it needs professional installation.
There are easier stocks and chasis to get right, cheaper too. If you are starting with a stiller or surgeon and start dumping cash let the professionals do it and come out of the box with 1/2-1/4 MOA.

If you are thinking the longest range with the 300 win mag go for the match tactical chamber and 1:9 twist or even 1:8 twist. With this twist you will be able to shoot the longest range the 300 mag has to offer with either
230gr tac berger or 210gr solid CNC. trans-sonic range with those should bearound a mile streching it and depending on atmospherics. The chamber and extra twist will help you with the longest tactical bullets and stabilizing when approaching break speeds to minimize yaw and therefore those jittery trajectories if you have a place where you can actually shoot that far. other than that the 1:10 will be okay.

Yesterday I was looking at the Bergara tactical and you get a lot on the out of the box packages.


Dark Eagle customs will build you a match winning setup....

http://www.darkeaglecustom.com/
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
It's not for any work purpose, just an awesome build that I might get into competition with, test my skills and learn more. But at the same time I don't build flashy guns, mine will always be of a tactical military nature. So I'd do better with a 26" and 1:9 with 200gr bullets? I'm glad someone spoke up with an opinion on the TAC21, this is a build I had wanted to do for years with an Accuracy International chassis but I'm just now finally getting to it and I'm not too fond of their new model. I'm not big on the overly skeletonized style. I love their older model thumb-hole chassis. So I would really appreciate more chassis suggestions cause I don't know what all is out there these days. Bulpup would be awesome if anyone knows of one for my chosen setup.
 

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Have someone build one to your specs and be done. I built some of mine and I am not saving any money and I have a nice lathe, mill and other tools
most people don't have. Don't use the TAC21 chasis. It doesn't yield repeatable accuracy. If you must have a tube gun check out the Eliseo that mount a lot stronger but imo it needs professional installation.
What do you base that on? We have countless examples where the TAC21 takes the group size down by leaps and bounds, in same cases taking the group size to .25 MOA.
Sure you will find a person here and there who prefers something else (especially when they have an invested interest in another company). But you will find that the majority has great success using the TAC21.

Just looking to know what this comment was based on. We are always looking to improve!

http://www.tactical-life.com/firearms/remington-tac21-chassis/#twnd15-tac21-lead
http://www.gunmart.net/accessories_review/mdt_remington_chassis_system
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013/07/foghorn/gear-review-mdt-tac21-rifle-chassis/
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Looks like a good debate is in order, I look forward to the info and opinions that come of this.
 

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It's not for any work purpose, just an awesome build that I might get into competition with, test my skills and learn more. But at the same time I don't build flashy guns, mine will always be of a tactical military nature. So I'd do better with a 26" and 1:9 with 200gr bullets? I'm glad someone spoke up about with an opinion on the TAC21, this is a build I had wanted to do for years with an Accuracy International chassis but I'm just now finally getting to it and I'm not too fond of their new model. I'm not big on the overly skeletonized style. I love their older model thumb-hole chassis. So I would really appreciate more chassis suggestions cause I don't know what all is out there these days. Bulpup would be awesome if anyone knows of one for my chosen setup.
Ok. I just wanted to make sure because the word sniper is over used and it is not really the best definition for a rifle but a role or job.
Anyway I just asked because of the discounts one can have for military and LEO/swat.

Regarding the tac21 the issue is that there is no steel bedding possible all around the reciever and it will not stay put to the constant pounding. I would get some steel mount and bed it to the action. If you got a surgeon you will have
an integral rail built into the action so you will not be able to use the TAC21 chasis anyway. The nice thing about the surgeon is also has the recoil lug cut in the reciever in one solid piece like the rail. But it is not necessary if you bed
the mount and use steel rings for your scope that is going to be a heavy one if it is of good quality. 30-40oz. Badger mounts and rings are popular among tactical and practical long range competition shooters but there are other brands
that will work fine.

If you don't like a cold chasis many aluminum ribbed stocks will work very well for a magnum like mcmillan, manners and even the AI 1.5 that price wise is very reasonable. For people in tighter budgets the Bells and Carlson medalist
is an amazing value and will do the same high end stocks do. Most people will add a metal bottom to take the popular AI magazines but there are other magazine systems out there. you want a quality one but this is not critical
to the accuracy like the bed and the actual action, barrel and chambering job.

Of course one can rebarrel with the barrel nut system whether it is Remington or Savage but with these long barrels and heavy calibers the reason people don't do that is because you want a large section of the shank to be cut at the full
size diameter flush with the recoil lug at around 1.35 vs. 1.060 that you get with the threads. This gives both less heat ahead of the chamber where the rifle gets hotter faster and more rigidity to the whole barrel then tapering down
smoothly with a heavy barrel target/tactical profile.

The 1:9 or even 1:8 I suggested was for the best bullets the 30 caliber has to offer like the 230gr berger and 210gr CNC solids. These need the winmag match/tactical chamber that is compatible with saami chamber.

Once again I would just leave this to a professional gunsmith or buy one already built. If you are going to dump that kind of money then make sure you get the accuracy and save some for training to shoot those distances
that is more important than the rifle itself.
 

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I would be very curious as well about the MDT chassis experiences. I've been looking to buy one, but can't bring myself to spend the big bucks on a Tac21 or even a LSS. If there is accuracy issues, that would steer me away a bit.

MDTCorp - if you would like to send one to me for cheap, I would be happy to try it out and let others know! :a37:

As far as calibers, how did 300 win mag come to be your top pick out of curiosity? A very proven and capable round, but didn't know if you had a particular yearning for it. The Long Range Hunting forums are a wealth of knowledge on this topic, so they might be a good addition to your forum base if you haven't been over there yet. If I were doing it personally, I would be shooting a 6.5 GAP4s (RSAUM) with a 20" premium barrel (Hart, Kreiger, etc) with a suppressor on the end.
 

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Good points.
The long range forums have a lot good info, the problem with the long range forums sometimes is that they are also conditioned by fashions and weekend warrior mentality. Not all of them luckily.
The 300 win mag will shoot very well and will put some hurt not too far behind the 338 Lapua magnum in terms of reach and trajectory yet it is a more budget friendly and potentially easier to shoot, at least for me.
But you bring a good point why not something smaller? In this department the 7mm is king offering the best balance between recoil, bullet performance and reach. Plus one has bullets heavy enough
to tackle something serious at long range.

Even the venerable 7mm rem mag with the best VLD bullets will overwrite the winmag and other popular trajectories. The REM saum in a long action (max coal is another good one). Even the original 284 beats the 6.5 version of it (6.5-284)

2900-3000fps. G1 over .7.. you do the math.

With the awesome 7mm out there is hard not to get excited about all the possibilities...

 

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It's hard to beat those 6.5 and 7mm for long range without losing a shoulder. I shoot a 338 Lapua and even with a suppressor 30-40+ rounds starts to wear you out in a session.

In addition to checking out the LRH forums, I STRONGLY suggest watching the Magpul Art of Precision Rifle DVDs if you haven't already (to the OP). It talks a lot about calibers, gear, and going long range shooting. Shows the capabilities of things as lowly as the 308 at 1000 plus. Todd is also the reason I am a believer in 20" barrels, even for the super uber crazy mags. I know my Lapua is going on a diet soon and going to be losing 6" off my barrel.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Well originally when I had considered getting into long range competition about 3 years ago and at that time I had always drooled over the Accuracy International thumb-hole chassis which was specifically offered in the 300WM and the Stiller TAC300 is a good match. That build got put in hold cause of financial struggle but now I have the TAC300 coming my way so the build finally begins. I just want a long range bigstick and the 300WM is my pick. I do intend to have a quality precision gunsmith do the actual build, right now I'm gathering together all my specs and parts choices.
 

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It's hard to beat those 6.5 and 7mm for long range without losing a shoulder. I shoot a 338 Lapua and even with a suppressor 30-40+ rounds starts to wear you out in a session.

In addition to checking out the LRH forums, I STRONGLY suggest watching the Magpul Art of Precision Rifle DVDs if you haven't already (to the OP). It talks a lot about calibers, gear, and going long range shooting. Shows the capabilities of things as lowly as the 308 at 1000 plus. Todd is also the reason I am a believer in 20" barrels, even for the super uber crazy mags. I know my Lapua is going on a diet soon and going to be losing 6" off my barrel.
Roger that. Less becomes more in the end. If one is punching paper at long range don't forget the 105-115gr 6mm too.

The advantage of the 7mm over the 6mm and 6.5mm is that it has a tad extra grain and better ballistic coefficients so it carries the extra momentum (not energy) in order to knock out the heavy steel and score.
In a military/tactical application the same thing, extra momentum more than desirable.

Even the simple yet amazing 7mm-08 loaded with match bullets will do everything the 308 winchester, 260, 243, 6.5 creedmoor, etc... will do, but better and with longer barrel life than the 6mm and 6.5mm.

The only one exception is the 308W with heavy for caliber bonded bullets for close encounters like a 180gr partition for bears or moose. But even there there it is marginal advantage on a very limited use.
 

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Well originally when I had considered getting into long range competition about 3 years ago and at that time I had always drooled over the Accuracy International thumb-hole chassis which was specifically offered in the 300WM and the Stiller TAC300 is a good match. That build got put in hold cause of financial struggle but now I have the TAC300 coming my way so the build finally begins. I just want a long range bigstick and the 300WM is my pick. I do intend to have a quality precision gunsmith do the actual build, right now I'm gathering together all my specs and parts choices.
Why not? ...Chris Kyle's chamber choice! ...after all it is a very versatile round with some cojones. Just put some weight on it and get to the ground ASAP.

Here some tips in case you want to consider...

high end match barrel, have them cut the shank with the profile as wide as they can with a very smooth taper.
XL recoil lug (Then have them at brownells and midway)
26" is ideal for this caliber and a decent burn with most fuel.
winmag Match/tactical chamber 9 or even 8 twist if you want to use the longest cnc solids.
Save the tac21 for another smaller caliber project or see if you can swap. It is not built for this kind of duty.
When threading the barrel for supresor or brake have them do a 3/4x20 thread so you have more meat at the muzzle. Also ask for a 3/4x20 thread protector
and same thread adaptor to stnadard 5/8x24 thread. It does't even add a full inch. You can have them cut a threaded sleeve so you can torque it down and index
any device you want w/o the need of any gunsmith or special tools.
Mil-Std 1913 Steel base 20 moa bedded to the action.
Steel tactical rings. Badger are awesome but SIG Alpha will work the same.
Trigger ...Timmey, Geissele ... so many options!
AI magazines are the way but you can choose a different system. CDI will work fine and they are well priced.
If you have another chasis it might come witht he AI that is kind of the standard anyway. Even the budget XLR will do better than the tac21 given
you have the steel base bedded and other things anchored.
Later you can play with the torque stettings as you tune up the load and harmonics.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Damn you put a lot out there haha. So I called Schneider mainly cause their website is unfinished. The guy I spoke with definitely helped me get a feel for what I'm wanting and I will probably go with them with their turnaround being about 12 weeks. So what I'm gonna go with is a 26" stainless 1:9 twist barrel with fluted M40 contour. I will have plenty of time to pick a chassis so I'll take all suggestions and study up on em. As for trigger I'm in love with my Geissle two-stage flat trigger and will likely stick with them. Now I gotta pick glass and a reputable Houston gunsmith.
 

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Damn you put a lot out there haha. So I called Schneider mainly cause their website is unfinished. The guy I spoke with definitely helped me get a feel for what I'm wanting and I will probably go with them with their turnaround being about 12 weeks. So what I'm gonna go with is a 26" stainless 1:9 twist barrel with fluted M40 contour. I will have plenty of time to pick a chassis so I'll take all suggestions and study up on em. As for trigger I'm in love with my Geissle two-stage flat trigger and will likely stick with them. Now I gotta pick glass and a reputable Houston gunsmith.
Schneider make some of the best barrels around so you will be fine. I would skip the fluting and let the extra meat to help me with the recoil but not huge deal ifthat is what you like. Fluting is another risk
for shifting POI from cold bore so better eliminitate that risk. Operators system rarely use fluting but they have the recessed profile cut for the supressor at the end.
For the chasis the AICs 1.5 is hard to beat in terms of value vs. cost. But there are others that will serve you well equally priced. I don't know them all but I can say
a mcmillan, AICS and even an affordable BC medalist tactical will produce the same results. People say great things about the XLR even their budget version. Bergara uses them in their LRP series.
I consider an advantage the warm chasis vs cold with open grip as you have more leverage to "pinch" the trigger from thumb to index. All these things possible with the tac300, manners, B&C and alike..
and not quite possible with grip/thumbhole setups where one needs to use a different technique. Cannot remove the thumb w/o loosing control from the palm.
I would also say in extreme rapid fire the open stock is faster but I guess everything can be worked out.
But like you said you have time. Just keep in mind the bedded steel base and rings beat any aluminum. This caliber is a heavy hammer specially with the 230 grainers.
Just think about those things, take your time and forget about internet and forum fashions. the rifle has to be made to fit you and not the other way around.
 
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