6.8 SPC Forums banner

1 - 16 of 16 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
59 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Well, I was in a local gunshop the other day and the shop owner showed me a 62S Valmet with the milled receiver. I know nothing about these, but doing some Googling, I see that these are 'good' AKs. They are suppose to be the most accurate AK some shooting under MOA :shock: !!

My question for all, including Constructor and any other 'smiths' out there is what do you think? What should I look out for when looking this weapon over at the shop? I believe factory barrels can still be found for $325 plus S&H.

BTW, it has a wood buttstock and wood grip with the plastic forearm with the holes.

Thanks,

Kelly
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,217 Posts
Valmets and the Israeli Galils are the best of the AK type rifles. I've seen Valmets before, they're pretty rare now days. My brother had an actual Israeli Galil ARM in 5.56 imported before the ban that was a very tight and accurate rifle. The Galil was based on the Valmet if I recall. The Galil was somewhat heavier than an AR, but had a cool folding stock and came with tritium night sights.

If you like it, buy it. They're collectible now so I'm sure you'd get your money back if you ever tired of it.

Century Arms is importing Galil kits and assembling them here in the US and I've seen them around $700 at area gun shows. I held one that had everything correct except the tritium sights were past their life or were missing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
112 Posts
i had a valmet m71 in 223 and it was quite accurate - about 1moa. they are beautifully made weapons in the old fashioned tradition. i begrudgingly accept that the AR is the gun to own nowadays, but i really wish they had the same appeal as that valmet.

and yes, i sold it. :(
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
59 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
The thing about this particular Valmet is it is the original 7.62x39 and uses any old AK mag :D :D :D !!! The later Valmets came in the 5.56 and had to use 'special' magazines, not the USGI types...

I was just wondering if anyone has AKs in their personal collection??

Kelly
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
307 Posts
Cohibra45 said:
The thing about this particular Valmet is it is the original 7.62x39 and uses any old AK mag :D :D :D !!! The later Valmets came in the 5.56 and had to use 'special' magazines, not the USGI types...

I was just wondering if anyone has AKs in their personal collection??

Kelly
The limiting factor in the 7.62X39 rifles is most often the ammunition. There aren't a lot of match loads available in that caliber because most run of the mill AK's are not capable of match accuracy. Most are minute of man at 200 yards. The standard AK iron sights are also sorely lacking in the accuracy department. If you were to handload using good brass and bullets I am sure the Valmet would do well for you.

I have a Vector AK in 7.62X39 and appreciate it for what it is a robust reliable carbine but it would not be the first rifle I would grab out of the safe if the zombie hordes arrived.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
112 Posts
Cohibra45 said:
I was just wondering if anyone has AKs in their personal collection??

Kelly
oh yeah. ive got a 16 inch saiga in 308. its also quite accurate (if i take off the hack job muzzle break it will do 1.5 moa) and very lightweight for a 308. the downside is that mags are expensive and not all that great. the irons suck and, worse, your optics choices are limited. but for 350 bucks you cant go wrong.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
60 Posts
Arsenal also makes a very accurate AK, well accurate for an AK. I have always read that the 7.62x39 round from 1943 is the major problem with the AK's accuracy. I imagine if the 7.62x39 had as much evolution as the 5.56x45?, It would be probably be a very good round.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
441 Posts
Just about every modern rifle round heck jsut about every single cartidge is capable of under .5 moa accuracy. Its all about proper cartidge components and a well built gun. Loose tolerances for either spell big groups. The AK is the king of loose. If the gun is that loose whatr was the point of good ammo. I guess thats what the old ruskies thought.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
Re: Accurate AKs??? Yes, It's Possible

My AK103.com Saiga conversion gets a solid 1 inch at 100 with Wolf ammo. I sighted in my Cobra red dot on top of that gun and I was very pleasantly surprised at the accuracy.

There is a hierarchy of Aks in the world, just do your research on which brands are higher quality and go from there. From my personal experience, here is my breakdown of quality, based on what I have seen:

Russian
Bulgarian
Polish
E German
Yugo
Chinese (milled)
Romanian
Egypt
Iraqi

Again, this is anecdotal, no figures to back it up, just impressions of guns I have handled over the last few years. All of these guns were "combat accurate" and fairly controllable on auto, at short ranges. The nicest one was the Chinese milled gun and it had to be old, but had a gorgeous mirror blue finish and insane fit and finish. I have shot Yugo, Ruskie, Chinese, and Iraqi ammo through them. The quality is ranked in that order-brass cased Yugo ammo had been my favorite. I like the Ruskie AP stuff as well, but I just feel that the brass case makes for a better shooting round. Iraqi was a 50 percent failure rate, btw.

It bears mentioning that you get what you pay for and the higher up you go on that list, the more expensive it gets.

Here's something to think about-the Dragunov is by many accounts a 3 or 4 moa gun, but insurgent snipers sure shoot the s**t out of Coalition troops/contractors with them. I have seen where bad guys would get 4 AK rounds on a drivers side window, on a vehicle going 130kph on a highway-from at least 200 yards away. (Yes, it was armored, nobody hurt.) They did this with regularity and did it well. God help you if you ran into a well trained crew with a PKM.

So, ultimately, the question is: how much accuracy do you really need......?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,217 Posts
Re: Accurate AKs??? Yes, It's Possible

CUSTOM1911FAN said:
My AK103.com Saiga conversion gets a solid 1 inch at 100 with Wolf ammo. I sighted in my Cobra red dot on top of that gun and I was very pleasantly surprised at the accuracy.

There is a hierarchy of Aks in the world, just do your research on which brands are higher quality and go from there. From my personal experience, here is my breakdown of quality, based on what I have seen:

Russian
Bulgarian
Polish
E German
Yugo
Chinese (milled)
Romanian
Egypt
Iraqi

Again, this is anecdotal, no figures to back it up, just impressions of guns I have handled over the last few years.
So, ultimately, the question is: how much accuracy do you really need......?
Custom1911fan, nice post, very informative. I wouldn't know from experience as you obviously write about, but it is noteworthy how opinions differ on weapon capabilities when you compare the rifle's performance on a paper target to actually seeing the weapon being used on the field either as a witness or as a target of said weapons.

Do you have any opinions on the Dragunov iterations running around also? I've toyed with the idea of buying a Dragunov copy before they are no longer importable, such as the Romanian Romak-3. You see them, and some of the pre-ban Russian Tigers (importable Dragunov sporters) from time to time at reasonable prices.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,477 Posts
Re: Accurate AKs??? Yes, It's Possible

CUSTOM1911FAN said:
There is a hierarchy of Aks in the world, just do your research on which brands are higher quality and go from there. From my personal experience, here is my breakdown of quality, based on what I have seen:

Russian
Bulgarian
Polish
E German
Yugo
Chinese (milled)
Romanian
Egypt
Iraqi
When I was in Vietnam I had the opportunity to work with a LOT of Chinese AK's. I was assigned the task of converting battlefield pickups to "war trophy's" that met the letter of the then current ATF regs. In each case, I removed the lower handguard, cut a slot through the bottom of the chamber and bore, used a stick welder to run a bead of 7018 rod the length of the chamber, and reattached the handguard. In this form, a round could not be chambered and were legally "deactivated" and were now legal bring backs. (Yes...I know the policy today is different.) In the late 60's and early 70's these were a hot commodity among young Naval Officers.

What I observed was a very wide variation in quality between the Chinese AK's depending on arsenal of manufacture. The stamped steel receiver guns, were generally of poor fit and finish...but functional. However, milled receiver fixed stock rifles made at Arsenal #26 were...OUTSTANDING. They were superior in fit and finish to the Bulgarian milled, and stamped Yugo and Romanian AK's I own today. Some of you may remember the AK "Legend Series" that was imported many years ago with the ox blood fixed stocks and hand checkered grips. These semi auto AK's were made at Arsenal 26 and are a good find if you stumble across one at a gun show. They are a near duplicate of the high quality Chinese AK's I handled in service.

Regarding their accuracy...I cannot comment. But they were very well made.

Kerry
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
Kerry,

There sure are alot of nice weapons that would make great trophies floating around. I tried to get a Belgian Hi Power back, but it was impossible. I wish I would have taken pictures of the proofs on Chinese rifle, it was a beaut. I agree that quality varies wildly between the different manufacturers, countries, etc.

Art,

AKs are aplenty, but I have only seen a captured Dragunov up close, once. My experience with long guns is limited to SPRs. I have never researched the Dragunovs, so I can't give you an opinion, but I am curious to hear what you learn.

Gabe Suarez hosts a Dragunov based sniper course, I bet one of his boys at Warrior Talk Forums would probably know more details on them. They are AK fanatics over there.

Regards
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,217 Posts
Thanks. I'll check out those forums and ask around.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Finding a good AK assembler is important if you want improved accuracy.

Take a look at Krebs Custom: http://www.krebscustom.com/KalashnikovRifles.shtml (scroll down to Catalog #94 (AK-103) or #110 (AK-103K (shorty)) for their basic AK rifles). More about Krebs here: http://www.krebscustom.com/AboutUs.shtml

I'll try to post a pic of my Krebs AK-103K here at some point.

Arizona Response Systems (http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/) is another popular AK builder, and for less $ than Marc Krebs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
60 Posts
gdonley308 said:
Arsenal also makes a very accurate AK, well accurate for an AK. I have always read that the 7.62x39 round from 1943 is the major problem with the AK's accuracy. I imagine if the 7.62x39 had as much evolution as the 5.56x45?, It would be probably be a very good round.
+1 for the Arsenals. A 4-5" gruop at a 100 yards is all you need to kill something very dead Mil-Spec is 4" at 100 yard yards. That's why more people have been killed with these rifles than any other, oh and except for Arsenal they're really cheap. All that being said I don't own even one and have 7 Ars 2 in 6.8, 2 in .308, 3 in 5.56, and 1 in .22LR.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
59 Posts
My understanding is that the sig rifles are quite accurate and are AK based. I really want one of the Sig 556 classics in 6.8 of course
 
1 - 16 of 16 Posts
Top