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Side note about the earlier LC discussion. Winchester won the management contract back from ATK after 20 years. OLN (Winchester parent) stock is now up about 300%
Whoever runs Lake City must meet certain specified parameters as far as quality control, etc. If they don't meet those parameters, the military will yank that contract in a heartbeat. So, I wouldn't have any issues using LC brass, but I wouldn't touch Winchester branded brass for all the money in the US Mint.
 

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According to my contact at Federal:
"Just looked at the bills of materials for the two 90gr loads. The loaded rounds are identical between the XM68GD and the Fusion 90gr. Same brass part number, same primer, same powder, same bullet, and both have permabond water seal around the case mouth. The loaded rounds have the same part number.
Since same loaded round, same pressure and velocity specs, too. Although, the XM68GD has government quality auditors that inspect, whereas the Fusion does not."
A bit old but definitely made my day. I like the Fusion load but didnt think it was held in as high a regard as the xm68 load but if they truly are the same, or basically the same, then I'm sitting on 500 rounds of it as I've been buying a box here, two boxes there, every time I go to shoot at a local-ish range. These folks have kept a stock of ammo to make anyone envious even through this recent madness and theyve pretty consistently had the 90gr Fusion MSR as well as the Hornady 100gr GMX load for sale, of which I always partake, but mostly the 90gr Fusion.

I'm loading my 90gr GSs (new from RMR as well) in both SSA and S&B new primed, CCI41 and 31.1gr of A2200. Really would like to find my best load using H4198 too, or H322, so thanks for a great thread.
 

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According to my contact at Federal:
"Just looked at the bills of materials for the two 90gr loads. The loaded rounds are identical between the XM68GD and the Fusion 90gr. Same brass part number, same primer, same powder, same bullet, and both have permabond water seal around the case mouth. The loaded rounds have the same part number.
Since same loaded round, same pressure and velocity specs, too. Although, the XM68GD has government quality auditors that inspect, whereas the Fusion does not."
That is really good to know! I like the 115 gr Fusion and I have several rds of the XM68GD. That will work for me for now, hopefully my rifle will like the 90 gr stuff.
 

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Here is my recent work up for 90 Grain Gold Dot loads. Stag 7H with 21" barrel. Fired from bench with sand bags for rest. Caldwell chrono. 5 shot groups. Measure top 4 to dampen out shooter error ?

S&B brass and Federal AR match primers for both. OAL 2.29.

H322
Charge. Avg vel. SD. Group size
30.7g. 2842. 3.9. .547
31.0g. 2878. 3.2. .844
31.3g. 2903. 9.6. .640
31.6g. 2920 9.5. .993
thanks for sharing. Thats about where I was as well charge wise with h322.
 

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thanks for sharing. Thats about where I was as well charge wise with h322.
Federal 90gr Gold Dot (Factory) [BC 0.215 G1 measured]
18" ARP 2915 fps

In the picture below, the Nosler's 90 BC is in the front row and Federal's 90 GD in the second row. Left to right is 100 yards, 200 yards, 300 yards (1850 fps), and 1650 fps. The 100-yard GD is turned over so you are looking at the base. This shows the 5 prongs that peel back on the Gold Dot. At 100 yards fired from an 18" barrel, the prongs/pedals actually wrap all the way around behind the base of the bullet. The 90 GD on the left is a 1200 fps impact while trying to use Trailboss to test minimum opening velocity. It was the only GD I have left that shows its basic shape.

Minimum expansion velocity is likely above 1900 fps for the Nosler 90gr BC. The 90 BC recovered at 300 yards and min velocity test, 1850 and 1650 fps, respectively, did not expand and way over-penetrate. Compared with the 90gr Gold Dot, the 90gr Bonded Core expansion was limited. The GD expanded as well below 1700 fps as the 90 BC did at 2150 fps.

Hope this gives you some good insight into the 90 GD's minimum velocity terminal performance.

1st post. I bought a lot of 90gd through Midway when they were on sale. I'd like to load them for a self defense round at about 100 yards max. looking at x-mans post it looks like the best expansion is at about 2200 fps. should I load these down to about 2400 fps? Using quick Target it shows a 2400 mv reaches 2206 fps at 50 yards and 2023 fps at 100 yards. I'm using an ARP 12.5 barrel. It seems that full house loads would be to fast for the range I'm thinking about. Thanks
 

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I personally would not load it down. I've killed a fox @50yds, doe at 70 drt, 2 more doe at 100yds and plenty of pigs between 30 and 150 yds with over 3k muzzle velocity and this bullet causes a lot of trauma at higher speeds. The fox although softer and thin skinned showed me the trauma this bullet does with a nasty huge exit wound. I would load till you hit a accuracy node because it will probably have 2 nodes one at book and one at spec II pressure. You can probably sight in somewhere between 30 and 50 yards and be able to point and shoot from 0-250ish depending on your velocity with 12.5" barrel (being a flat base low bc bullet it still shoots really flat and works great at less than 300 yds). My thinking is why limit yourself to 100 even that's all you plan on. You never know and I don't think it performs better at 2200 fps just makes a pretty mushroom which is better for hunters but real world experience says it's gtg faster with devastating results. 2 legged critters in a sd situation there is no need to save meat. If just going to 100 though you will be fine either way. I'm no expert this is just my 2¢ worth.
 

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Remember the good old days when Palmetto would get shipments of XM68GD and based on their mood price from $7.99 to $9.99 and would read posts where people complained it was not worth paying that much as long as had a enough to hunt put back. Made a post to another group back one of the times Palmettor ran a $7.99 sale to get responses like thier $1 per box shipping was too much or why shoot 6.8 at all when able to get 5.56 M193 delivered at a quarter per round and M855 for not much more. Have a dealer account at Palmetto which is only reason am able to keep doing business with them when they started charging sales tax and jacking up delivery prices. Have a State Sales & Use tax number, Federal I.D. number, retail business license, brick & mortar location and sell just enough gun parts on rare occasion plus lots of body armor Uncle Sam considers it part of my business.

Up till 2015 into 2017 General Mattis was the up and coming power player in military decisions and he had said straight up was going to switch all branches to 6.8 and already had SAWs being converted to 6.8 and sending to the field for battle testing along with M4s to select special ops groups along with USSOCOM.With Mattis behind the 6.8 as is except for discussion about the spc II chamber I honestly felt it was going to the field across the board so was not overly worried about buying every round they got in. I was buying 200 to 1,200 rounds based on how much spare cash was willing to spend and how many builds I had completed as like to have a minimum of 2,000 rounds of factory milspec ammo for all my milspec firearms.

By 2018 when posted it it at $9.99 called dealer sales rep who said it was coming in less often and in less numbers but would adjust my price to $7.99 and let me buy up to 1,200 rounds or half their inventory whichever was the most. If only had 1,000 rounds in stock would sell me 500 at $7.99 with discounted shipping, if had 2,000 rounds left would sell me 1,000 and if had more than I could handle would buy all I felt safe to buy and not deplete my "toy money" to point would not be able to leverage some deal may trip over the net week. Put back over 12,000 rounds of XM68GD but still kick myself to this day for not putting back double or more.

On topic I would not build a reduced load since the ammo is going in a shorter barrel and may find yourself in a bind having to engage zombies out to 250 yards. At least load them to their military specs which is 6.8 spc not spc II thus a slightly reduced load out of the box. I would choose the most appropriate powder I had the most available to use, shoot a few ladders to find a good accuracy node for your rifle, tweak your load a bit for improved accuracy near that node then lock down all your settings and run as many as you can. More you load the less issues will have with duplicating every setting from trim length, primer pocket prep, powder charge and neck tension variations and be done with it.I have no complaints about the Gold Dot design/performance in either weight considering price.

While I have a couple of 12.5" 6.8's do not understand how popular that length has become. have to build it as a pistol that could be regulated away with a single letter fro President or BATFE or use a long muzzle device pined to get 16". I have a pair of 10.5" with suppressors pined for single stamp SBRs but most of my smaller carbines are built on 13.7", 13.9" 14.5", 14.7" based on muzzle device using when pinned to 16.050" to 16.1" OAL from bolt face to end of device can get as much barrel as possible but keep it to shortest length possible. Many builds will test fit barrels from 13.7" to 14.7" and muzzle devices with washer to maximize bore length while keeping rifle short as possible but legal. Have a pile of rifles that measure 16.1" or slightly shorter so get all I can with muzzle device using.

Even built a Form 1 suppressor to bring an 8.5" barrel up to 16.1" pinned tube and the big fat long can really keeps the 6.8 bark down to a growl. Two of my my 458 SOCOMS have 8.5" barrels with 8" supressors same diameter as forearm to retain as much gas as possible having a single stamp rifle instead of SBR with suppressor requiring two stamps. I am anticipating the day I have to SBR my pistols or pin them to rifle length so do not build too many short pistols.
 

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Thanks for the replies. From what I understand the xm68gd ammo was made for the saudis to use with an 8.5 inch barrel for close quarter work. With the average velocity right at 2400 fps. I also have an 18 inch arp that I would load up for longer shots, but thought It would be wise to load it down for the 12.5 inch. I live in a forest and a 100 yard shot would be long. I understrand that your loosing a bunch of energy by loading it down. I'm fairly new to ballistics and wonder if the bullet would come apart at to high of a velocity. I'm tempted to get the bison 8.5 inch barrel and call it good for self defense. Thanks again!
 

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1st post. I bought a lot of 90gd through Midway when they were on sale. I'd like to load them for a self defense round at about 100 yards max. looking at x-mans post it looks like the best expansion is at about 2200 fps. should I load these down to about 2400 fps? Using quick Target it shows a 2400 mv reaches 2206 fps at 50 yards and 2023 fps at 100 yards. I'm using an ARP 12.5 barrel. It seems that full house loads would be to fast for the range I'm thinking about. Thanks
Going with the shorter barrel you will lose a little velocity but probably not enough to get down to the 2400 fps you are thinking. If you are actually using Gold Dots then they will hold together very well even at the higher velocities.
 

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Thanks for the replies. From what I understand the xm68gd ammo was made for the saudis to use with an 8.5 inch barrel for close quarter work. With the average velocity right at 2400 fps. I also have an 18 inch arp that I would load up for longer shots, but thought It would be wise to load it down for the 12.5 inch. I live in a forest and a 100 yard shot would be long. I understrand that your loosing a bunch of energy by loading it down. I'm fairly new to ballistics and wonder if the bullet would come apart at to high of a velocity. I'm tempted to get the bison 8.5 inch barrel and call it good for self defense. Thanks again!
It's a bonded bullet. It will not come apart if shot is 25 yards out of 20" barrel or 25" out of a 12.5" . Just shoot it out of what ever barrel length you prefer with confidence .

Sent from my LM-K920 using Tapatalk
 

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I feel like I won the lotto today….just traded some unused loading components for another. 100rds of XM68GD. My stash was getting low. ;). I’ve got 500 pills, but not time to load them yet.
 

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Just remember XM68GD is loaded to 6.8 spc pressures, not 6.8 spc II so its already a downloaded round as comes out of a factory box. I see no point in loading 90 grain goldd dots any lighter than their factory pressure/velocity. I load my 90 grain Gold dots a bit hotter than XM68GD factory white box specifications but not at chart top either and have tested my loads in several 6.8 spc chambered rifles to notice primers beginning to flatten but not enough to show dangerous pressure and if shoot my personal version of the XM68GD from my original 6.8 spc chambered rifles it shows just the beginning signs of pressure issues with primers beginning to flatten but no cratering, piercing, backing out, etc. I have several 14.5" and 14.7" 6.8s as pin up to beyond 16" legal limit from bolt face to end of device thus unless they just outright ban the AR 15 feel these are best length rifles to build for "stockpile" purposes.

Have four identical 14.7" 6.8 spc II's built on FN hammer forged barrels (recently found two more of these barrels in place don't usually keep barrels) down to same optics and every last part. With factory XM68GD they shoot 2,800 fps pretty consistently and with my XM68GD handload "clones" clock just at 2,900 fps from the 14.7" bores. Can shoot the 100 fps faster clones in AR 15, Mini 14 and bolt rifles chambered in original 6.8 spc dimensions and have no extractor marks or any pressures signs other than the slightly flatter primer. Load my XM68GD "clones" where I do so they are safe to run in any 6.8 happen to pick up. Have four identical 14.5" barrels (Palmetto marketed) of which two are built that shoot both the factory and my slightly hotter "clone" XM68GD at same velocity of the 14.7" tubes but my pair of Wilson 14.5" barrels shoot a tad slower.

I own more 18" 6.8s than any length, 14.5"/14.7" follow in a close second and could overtake the 18" rifles just buy pulling a few barrels and receivers from the parts lockers. Own from 8.5" to 24" but have more 14.5"/14.7" and 18" 6.8s than all other lengths combined. the 14ish inch pin ups do it all in small package and 18" get 90% to 95% accuracy of any longer tube so have little use to go longer anymore. I still like 13.7" length but Noveske tubes are rare as hens teeth but rcently found a 13.9" tube ordered in to build but can't remember name brand offhand. No matter which 6.8 I pick up i see zero point in downloading unless a person didn't own a 5.56 and was running low on powder.

While we have plenty of 6.8 ammo and reloading components with the current situation I don't se any reason to burn 30% more powder for each round when out keeping hand to eye coordination along with trigger finger all in tune so for now am doing most light fighter rifle training with 5.56 as have at least five times more ammo and components for 5.56 as purchased my first AR in the 1970s and owned three by time I graduated high school in 1981 when 5.56 was really the only game unless wlidcatting.In the 1980s and 1990s put back so much 5.56 it makes more sense to be burning that older ammo at the range running tactical courses than 6.8 till primer and powder prices stabilize but did have another 1,500 6.8 projectiles show up today from another deal found.

Load your 6.8 at full power and if need reduced load swap over to your 5.56 rifles at least for range work. Got home from work today and wife told me needed to sweep up the back deck before got out of work cloths. that usually means she did some training or leaves have started falling. Policed up 180 pieces of 7.62x39 brass off the deck which means there are another twenty cases laying in the dirt that got through the lattice i put up to keep brass from launching off deck when shooting in back yard. Have to get them policed up in the morning as don't want the lawn mower to pick them up. Rather than down load just step down a caliber if reduced recoil or reduced component use is the goal.
 

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Good info from everyone. I guess since the bullet is bonded, I'll just load them up. I have a bunch of CFE BLK and will work up a load that is accurate out of my 12.5 and 18 inch ARP. I have chrono'd the 90gr gold dots at 2990 fps through the 18 inch with 30.5 gr of CFE BLK with an oal of 2.25. That should be at about 2750 fps through the 12.5 inch. (which is awsome for a 12.5) I'll use that as my max and see if I can find some nodes below that. Thanks for the input.
 

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Anyone know anyplace that has the 90gr XM68GD boxes for sale? Palmetto State is out of stock. Not many places carry the 6.8 as it is.. So, any suggestions would be great. And that includes confirmation that the Federal Fusion MSR are the same rounds, just not held to the higher standard.
 

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Anyone know anyplace that has the 90gr XM68GD boxes for sale? Palmetto State is out of stock. Not many places carry the 6.8 as it is.. So, any suggestions would be great. And that includes confirmation that the Federal Fusion MSR are the same rounds, just not held to the higher standard.
I also read (don't recall the article though) that stated the 90 gr fusion was a similar round to the XM90GD. Can I verify that......no I can't.
 

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I think Lucky gunner said may get federal fusion in 6.8 by end of week. I imagine everyone else will have it svailable for sale too. The other must be same thing but white box and is from contract run.
 

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I also read (don't recall the article though) that stated the 90 gr fusion was a similar round to the XM90GD. Can I verify that......no I can't.
I think that article was probably a thread here on 68forums. There was quite a bit of conversation on this board when Federal came out with the Fusion round for the 6.8.

My recollection is that it's the same bullet but either the powder or charge weight was a little different. So, you'll get slightly different dope between the two, but more or less the same terminal performance. Also, I don't believe the Fusion has crimped primers since it's not loaded for the military. I remember when the Fusion became available I shot XM68GD and Fusion groups back-to-back out of my 16" ARP barrel and got about a tenth of inch better group at 100 yards with the XM68GD but POI was the same. I think it's fair to characterize them as interchangeable, but not identical. Also, I think the only chance of getting more XM68GD is if the Saudis place another order.
 
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