[first68]

Below is a suprising, or not suprising, email thread with Hornady upon my suggestion they consider the new Spec II loads:

My reply:

Wow. I was really not expecting that response. Please do some more research on this before making rash decisions that will impact your ability to compete in the near future. Thank you for your time.

--------

Hornady response:

We are aware there are some people who are wildcatting this round and putting potentially dangerous ammo on the market. We won't.

--------

My initial submission to Hornady:

I am a 6.8mm SPC shooter, mostly for deer and hogs. Your loads are based on the old specI barrells. As bad ass as the 6.8 is, it is underwhelming in the current load as compared to what it is capable of. Many reloaders have pushed the envelope safely to over 3000fps with a 85 grain bullet in the new specII barrells (6.86x43mm). Pretty much all upper manufactures have switched over now anyway or at least have committed to. I am on my 5th case of your 110 vmax cartridges and would like to continue purchasing your stuff but 2500fps is a real yawner and sometimes insufficient against hogs. Thanks for listening.

 

[Bull000]

Did the rep from Hornady just make a complete assumption? It's like he doesn't want to believe that the 6.8SPC cartridge is capable of more in the SPECII chamber.... Sounds like ya'll with the right experience need to get on Honadys ass. Git on it boys.

 

[ron169]

maybe this will be a moot point one day. I personally wouldnt bother hornady any more in the near future.

 

[marinesg1012]

Most people that answer questions ussually dont know what is going on....

 

[Jamesb74]

Most people that answer questions ussually dont know what is going on....

I agree with this point. You might of wanted to reword your first statement. It seems any time someone throws in the reloading fact then ammo manu's start throwing back "wildcat" dangerous levels line's to cover thier asses.
Actually might have reworded the whole thing taken the personal aspect out of it and gone for a straight tech question.

 

[Jack-O]

I'm working with Hunting Shack to load the 6.8 better. They have thier 110vmax load that is functionally identical to the TAP ammo (same projo and velocity) that we may be able to push past the 2600fps mark. problem is that they dont see a demand for it, so they are not really inclined to develop it too much further.

If you guys will support them by buying thier stuff then we can possibly get some better loads into the market.

If you are interested in getting some of thier ammo, then PM me, as I have about 3000 rounds of the 110 vmax available for immediate purchase at a fair price (among other things). web store and 6.8 vendor status will follow shortly.

 

[constructor]

The Vmax could be the worst 6.8 bullet on the market as far as accuracy goes.
It is a varmint bullet and shouldn't be used on deer anyway so why not get HS to load something else like the Sierra PH.

 

[Jack-O]

I think they load it because the vmax is cheap and makes the load more affordable. they also load the 115 OTM. If we can get some support for the caliber then we can get them to expand thier line. It's always nice to have some competition in the 6.8 market and we have a real opportunity as a community to support a great company and get some alternatives available to the 6.8 shooter.

We may even be able to get that old extreme bullet loading back (with some tweaks) that SSA abandoned and make and even more affordable loading.

I'm a dealer for thier stuff and would really like to represent the 6.8 shooters to them, but I cant do it unless we show them we are a market that needs to be addressed.

IIRC the VMAX tested very well in gel as an APERS round

 

[HTR]

I think they load it because the vmax is cheap and makes the load more affordable. they also load the 115 OTM. If we can get some support for the caliber then we can get them to expand thier line. It's always nice to have some competition in the 6.8 market and we have a real opportunity as a community to support a great company and get some alternatives available to the 6.8 shooter.

We may even be able to get that old extreme bullet loading back (with some tweaks) that SSA abandoned and make and even more affordable loading.

I'm a dealer for thier stuff and would really like to represent the 6.8 shooters to them, but I cant do it unless we show them we are a market that needs to be addressed.

IIRC the VMAX tested very well in gel as an APERS round

I agree with H. The VMax is not very accurate in 6.8. If anyone were buying the VMax for antipersonnel purposes, all of the data put forth by GKR says that 2600 FPS is just fine as humans tend to be exceptionally light and easy to incapacitate anyway. This is exactly why there is little imptus for the higher energy rounds among LE circles.

As for hunting, that is a completely different story. I need more energy, flatter trajectory and different bullets. If HSM could load the 110 SPH, 100 grain Accubond, and the 85 grain TSX to our higher SPC II -type velocities, now you would have something there.

 

[constructor]

For LE work out to 100 yds the Vmax is plenty accurate.

 

[marinesg1012]

I just people would understand that by gaining velocity you increase your frag threshold allowing the LEO's and of course the .mil's more flexability in the rifle system......

 

[paulosantos]

I'd just be happy if Hornady or someone else would come out with a decent 110 GR BTHP bullet. If someone can make 110 GR BTHP bullet with a Tangent Ogive, I's be happy as jell.

 

[DocGKR]

The current (as of 11/08) Hornady 6.8 mm 110 gr OTM load is about perfect in every parameter for use as a LE duty or military load. There is no compelling reason to change it and a lot of valid reasons to leave it alone.

 

[rcrandall]

I agree, 110 grains bullets should be over 2600 fps minimum.

But I tested two of SSA's loads and one Hornady load out of the 8.5" PSD today;

115 grain OTM old Combat
90 grain Sierra HP old combat
110 grain vmax TAP

I fired them into five gallon plastic jugs with water and newspaper at fifteen through a chronograph to see what the reduced impact velocity would do. I taped old code books behind the jugs just in case there was overpenetration and I could catch the bullets. None of the rounds over penetrated, though the OTM and vmax knocked the books out of the tape and threw them on the ground. The newspaper was pulped and I only found a few slivers of lead and copper fragments for the 115 grain OTM and 90 grain Sierra. All penetrated to the end of the jug and left dimples on the books but no penetration past the plastic. The vmax was found at the far end of the jug and was the only bullet that mushroomed and remained in tact. I haven't been home yet to measure the retained weight but there was also some fragmentation. With SSA's OTM there were four dimples in the back of the plastic indicating the bullet fragmented heavily and the fragments contiued with plenty of power.

Impact velocites were approximately:
OTM - 2160ish
90 Sierra - 2550
vmax - 2160ish

I don't have the chrono info with me but those numbers are with in a few fps.

I'm a believer in the 6.8 still fragmenting at low velocities and hitting like Thor's hammer, the damage done to the wet newspaper was nasty. Again, not a scientific test, but still interesting, IMO.

 

[metalsmith]

I have to comment. To the manufacturers, anything outside the SAAMI speciification for chamber dimensions or pressures is a wildcat.

Look at the 257 roberts as an example. There are many many small ring mausers of questionable metalurgy that would come apart over 45,000 CUP. the cartirdge was originally designed at 45,000.

Your Remington or winchester will handle more then that easily, but will the manufacturers load for modern firearms? No they would blow up your small ring mexican mauser and get sued to high heaven. the same goes for the 6.8. when you wildcat your on your own.

 

[rcrandall]

I have to comment. To the manufacturers, anything outside the SAAMI speciification for chamber dimensions or pressures is a wildcat.

Look at the 257 roberts as an example. There are many many small ring mausers of questionable metalurgy that would come apart over 45,000 CUP. the cartirdge was originally designed at 45,000.

Your Remington or winchester will handle more then that easily, but will the manufacturers load for modern firearms? No they would blow up your small ring mexican mauser and get sued to high heaven. the same goes for the 6.8. when you wildcat your on your own.

Another example is the .45-70 Govt. Marlin Lever guns can handle much higher pressures than the old trap door carbines but most manufacturers won't load for the stronger Marlin. I guess that's why Marlin came out with the .450.

 

[paulosantos]

The current (as of 11/08) Hornady 6.8 mm 110 gr OTM load is about perfect in every parameter for use as a LE duty or military load. There is no compelling reason to change it and a lot of valid reasons to leave it alone.

I have tried them in 6 different barrels with several different powders and the bes I got was 3 MOA. That is far from ideal or perfect and downright pathetic them otherbullets are shooting sub MOA. Keep the same bullet construction and just change the give to a more forgiving Tangent one.

Everyone thinks that the SPC isn't any good for shooting past 600 yards and they are correct. Until someone does outwtg a beyyer 110 GR bullet, the SPC will not advance any further. Just 1 decent BTHP bullet. How hard is that? Especially them the perfect bullet is already out there. Take the Speed 90 GR TNT and make it a 110 GR BTHP.

 

[Jamesb74]

I have tried them in 6 different barrels with several different powders and the bes I got was 3 MOA. That is far from ideal or perfect and downright pathetic them otherbullets are shooting sub MOA. Keep the same bullet construction and just change the give to a more forgiving Tangent one.

Everyone thinks that the SPC isn't any good for shooting past 600 yards and they are correct. Until someone does outwtg a beyyer 110 GR bullet, the SPC will not advance any further. Just 1 decent BTHP bullet. How hard is that? Especially them the perfect bullet is already out there. Take the Speed 90 GR TNT and make it a 110 GR BTHP.

Hey your supposed to be on vacation!!!!!!! Quit getting worked up and go drink some good beer

 

[BLACK LION]

I'm a believer in the 6.8 still fragmenting at low velocities and hitting like Thor's hammer, the damage done to the wet newspaper was nasty. Again, not a scientific test, but still interesting, IMO.

I am not as tech savvy as some of you gents but this was my exact experience with the almost identical S&B PTS... if I am not mistaken the mv is below 2600(around 2500-2550). I fired them at a cold rolled steel plate appx 100 yds away. They almost penetrated but seemingly blew to bits... I could not retrieve a single piece. Definately frags at lower muzzle velocity and in fact pretty much blew up.... they dug nickel size holes , if not bigger. left a nice raised dot in the middle where the plastic tip was too.
Those little phukers are nasty. I for one love the red tip Hornady and s&b pts.... I recoverd some hornady rounds from a sand berm before and they had expanded tip over end...looked like a half bloomed flower... very impressive.

excuse the rant

 

[dlance13]

Hey your supposed to be on vacation!!!!!!! Quit getting worked up and go drink some good beer

LOL judging by the unusual number of typos in Paulo's post I'd say he has already hit the beer and then got worked up!