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... the ssa 90gr BSB and ... deer hunting... Would you use it and shoot thru the shoulders 200 yards or less?
Consider the Nosler's 90gr BSB an Accubond without a tip. I would not hesitate to hunt deer or hogs with it. Yes the 90 GD expands more and at a lower velocity but the 90 BSB is still an effective hunting bullet out to 200 yards. Note the 90 GD mushroom is well rounded and the 90 BSB is flat. I have found that rounded mushrooms do not make as large a wound cavity as a flat mushroom/expansion, even if the flat mushroom is smaller in diameter. The 90 BSB will hold together like an Accubond so shoulder shots or broundside lung shots are go-to-go with the BSB. My experience using 90 GD on deer and hogs has not been as good as the Accubonds and I believe the flatter mushroom is the main reason why.
Is there an everyday plinking bullet for a low cost and where can a man get them.
 

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Is there an everyday plinking bullet for a low cost and where can a man get them.
90gr tnt - 650 bulk pack -online at many vendors, or find some cheap pulls for 1/2 that price if you like
 

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Several of you have been waiting for this so here is the Federal Fusion/Gold Dot Bullet Comparison.

Federal’s 115gr and 120gr Fusion MSR bullets look to be identical in construction to the 90gr Gold Dot (XM68GD). I’m not sure why they call the 90gr a Gold Dot. All the bullets have lead cores that are bonded to their copper jackets similar to Nosler’s AccuBond bullets. Currently, the 90gr and 115gr are only available as factory loads. I hope these bullets become available to handloaders in the near future. The 120gr bullets have been discontinued and were sold in bulk at very reasonable prices so many 6.8 shooters acquired a large supply for handloading. Note the 120gr bullets have a long ogive and load to 2.350” which should work fine in a 6.8mm bolt gun but is beyond standard AR magazine length. Some shooters have modified magazines to accommodate this length. Others load the bullet further into the case mouth which can negatively impact neck tension because the body of the bullet only has a ¼-inch bearing surface to begin with, plus you are unlike to be able to set-up a crimp if you use one. Thanks to these forum members for their contributions to this test session.
TheHomelandSoldier for 90gr Gold Dots
Krw17 for the 115gr Fusion MSRs
jwtharpe for the 120gr Fusion MSRs

Here are the average muzzle velocities achieved during this test session.

90gr Federal Gold Dot - 2915 fps (Factory) [BC 0.236]
115gr Federal Fusion MSR - 2490 fps (Factory) [BC 0. 378] corrected to 5-shot average
120gr Federal Fusion MSR - 2550 fps (27.5gr AA2200) [BC 0.400] COAL 2.350”

Caution - this load worked in my rifle but this is no guarantee that it will work safely in yours.
Go to the First Page for Quick Links to all the bullets tested.


Here are the results of 100, 200, and 300 yard testing.

The Nosler 85gr E-Tip and Sierra 90gr HP are shown in the inset for comparison only.

I couldn't help but notice these GD's don't look nearly as pretty as with your testing against the Nosler. Do you have any other results with them?
 

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Discussion Starter · #504 ·
Nick, the test picture shown in your post were the result of terminal performance testing with my original bullet trap set-up using a water jug and 1500 pages of phonebook. It turns out that the lead in the 90 Gold Dots (and 115 MSR) is soft enough to be distorted going through the phonebook. I now also use an Alternative Bullet Trap made up of water soaked newspapers that doesn't distort softer lead cores in situations where the lead core is soft which is why the comparison picture comparing 90 GD expansion with the Nosler 90 BC looks better.

http://68forums.com/forums/showthre...et-Performance&p=561863&viewfull=1#post561863

It also looks like PhotoBucket struck again and removed a picture of a 90 GD in the subsequent post. This 90 GD was recovered from a doe at 190 yards which shows more representative expansion. I've included it below.
 

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Discussion Starter · #506 ·
Nick M, I should also include that the recovered GD above was from a broadside lung shot and the bullet was recovered under the off-side hide just in front of the hind quarter. I look for straighter penetration and prefer an exit wound with my hunting bullets. One can see that the 90 GD expands to a near perfect, rounded mushroom. However, I believe the GD does not makes as large a wound cavity as a smaller diameter but flatter mushroomed bullet like the 100/110 AB. I shot two small hogs that same hunting trip with the 90 GD and they only left a blood trail. The 90 GDs work as a hunting bullet but I now choose others to hunt deer and hogs with.
 

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Nick M, I should also include that the recovered GD above was from a broadside lung shot and the bullet was recovered under the off-side hide just in front of the hind quarter. I look for straighter penetration and prefer an exit wound with my hunting bullets. One can see that the 90 GD expands to a near perfect, rounded mushroom. However, I believe the GD does not makes as large a wound cavity as a smaller diameter but flatter mushroomed bullet like the 100/110 AB. I shot two small hogs that same hunting trip with the 90 GD and they only left a blood trail. The 90 GDs work as a hunting bullet but I now choose others to hunt deer and hogs with.
The two small hogs only left a blood trail and were recovered or not recovered ?
IF not recovered why no recovery?
 

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Discussion Starter · #508 ·
I recovered on that was shot 2 times in the vitals and the other had two hits on body (sound of thumps) and was not recovered. Others have had similar experience with hogs.
 

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I recovered on that was shot 2 times in the vitals and the other had two hits on body (sound of thumps) and was not recovered. Others have had similar experience with hogs.
I sure wish I had known the Bullet was not a good killer BEFORE I bought a Thousand rounds of Federal xm68gd !!
Everything I read here talked about how good it is.
Course I guess the two Thumps you heard could have been gutshots .
 

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Discussion Starter · #510 ·
bcraig, the link I had to hunts were hogs were taking multiple hits is missing in the original post you referenced. It is not that the 90GD is not a lethal bullet. It does good for a 90 gr bullet and has good barrier penetration. There are bullets that are more effective on deer and hogs.
 

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bcraig, the link I had to hunts were hogs were taking multiple hits is missing in the original post you referenced. It is not that the 90GD is not a lethal bullet. It does good for a 90 gr bullet and has good barrier penetration. There are bullets that are more effective on deer and hogs.
I only hunt deer and not hogs but will see on deer this year assuming I can get a deer or two to cooperate .

I think that weakening the bullet would give better penetration as then the bullet would get to the weakened area and then the petals would break off .
This would mean less frontal area and function much as a Partition,blowing the front of the bullet off and a smaller front continuing to penetrate.
Perhaps using a wheeled pipe cutter to weaken the jacket,this would take some experimentation but I bet it would work.
 

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I only hunt deer and not hogs but will see on deer this year assuming I can get a deer or two to cooperate .

I think that weakening the bullet would give better penetration as then the bullet would get to the weakened area and then the petals would break off .
This would mean less frontal area and function much as a Partition,blowing the front of the bullet off and a smaller front continuing to penetrate.
Perhaps using a wheeled pipe cutter to weaken the jacket,this would take some experimentation but I bet it would work.
You are joking , right ?

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I think that weakening the bullet would give better penetration as then the bullet would get to the weakened area and then the petals would break off .
The reason FMJ "over penetrates" is that they don't break up. Maybe I was not understanding either. It seems like you think if the bullet breaks up it will penetrate deeper. Is that wrong?
 

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The reason FMJ "over penetrates" is that they don't break up. Maybe I was not understanding either. It seems like you think if the bullet breaks up it will penetrate deeper. Is that wrong?
The reason a FMJ does penetrates so well is that there is a smaller frontal area with no loss of bullet weight.

Two bullets of the same caliber( one a bullet that does not expand and one that does) and weight shot at the same speed and rotation into a test medium will show the bullet with the smaller frontal area penetrating more.

I am not talking about a bullet Breaking up entirely Just shedding enough after initial penetration that the frontal area of the bullet would be smaller with little loss of weight and allow for deeper penetration.
 

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Discussion Starter · #516 ·
A couple points to clarify. An FMJ will yaw 180 degrees after impact and over-penetrate tail first. A bullet has to immediately expand in diameter and shorten in length on impact to stay stable during penetration.A bullet with smaller frontal area (less expansion) can penetrate deeper, even with less kinetic energy, than a bullet that expands to a larger diameter. As an example, in tests I have done with Hornady's GMX bullets shot from a .270 Win and .300 WM, the 130 grain .270 penetrated deeper than the 165 grain .308 bullet shot from the 300 WM that had more energy because the .270 bullet had less frontal area and didn't transfer it's energy as fast.
 

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A couple points to clarify. An FMJ will yaw 180 degrees after impact and over-penetrate tail first. A bullet has to immediately expand in diameter and shorten in length on impact to stay stable during penetration.A bullet with smaller frontal area (less expansion) can penetrate deeper, even with less kinetic energy, than a bullet that expands to a larger diameter. As an example, in tests I have done with Hornady's GMX bullets shot from a .270 Win and .300 WM, the 130 grain .270 penetrated deeper than the 165 grain .308 bullet shot from the 300 WM that had more energy because the .270 bullet had less frontal area and didn't transfer it's energy as fast.
All bullets are Yawing in flight with some being more or less stable depending on caliber for weight and rifling twist.
When a bullet is very unstable during flight and tumbling already the effect in flesh is obviously going to be a bullet striking either sideways or base first.

SOME Bullets whether FMJ or soft point will yaw or tumble upon impact depending on when in the flight the bullet strikes the target.
Also where the impact takes place(bone,soft tissue etc).

Impact velocity affects the yaw or tumbling as well.

Some FMJ bullets enter nose first and basically remain nose first as can be shown with ballistic gel.

The bigger the mushroom the more likely a bullet is to diverge from its course as there is more in front to
(catch) on tissue or bone to divert the course.And if the bullet is turned sideweighs it will act like a parachute and slow the bullet down more which impedes penetration.
 

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I am not talking about a bullet Breaking up entirely Just shedding enough after initial penetration that the frontal area of the bullet would be smaller with little loss of weight and allow for deeper penetration.
Mass x velocity. Shedding weight reduces penetration, every time. Your point of pounds per square inch is noted and not wrong. It just doesn't matter enough because the momentum is lost. Kinetic energy and the shedding of it in the target is put on the box for a reason, and we all know it.

There were links here in years past to some really extensive penetration testing, using things like M80 ball, M193, .45 auto 9mm, 45-70....Ive been looking for it.
 

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All bullets are Yawing in flight with some being more or less stable depending on caliber for weight and rifling twist.
When a bullet is very unstable during flight and tumbling already the effect in flesh is obviously going to be a bullet striking either sideways or base first.

SOME Bullets whether FMJ or soft point will yaw or tumble upon impact depending on when in the flight the bullet strikes the target.
Also where the impact takes place(bone,soft tissue etc).

Impact velocity affects the yaw or tumbling as well.

Some FMJ bullets enter nose first and basically remain nose first as can be shown with ballistic gel.

The bigger the mushroom the more likely a bullet is to diverge from its course as there is more in front to
(catch) on tissue or bone to divert the course.And if the bullet is turned sideweighs it will act like a parachute and slow the bullet down more which impedes penetration.
Ballistics jell is not animal. Bullets are almost always heavier in rear so unless the front half gets heavier really fast ( expansion) it will yaw . What happens when it yaws depends on VELOCITY and construction, a thin jacket or bullet designed with break up midsection will come apart when turned sideways at suffechent VELOCITY where as a thick jacket or lower VELOCITY may continue flipping ends and exit base first . Anything that is too big for one of the 6.8 bullets already designed is too big to be shooting at with a 6.8

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Shedding weight reduces penetration every time ?
Let’s suppose that a bullet was constructed to lose 5% of its bullet tip on impact then behind that there was a full metal jacket that would not expand (90 gr-4.5=95.5)
Do you think that it would penetrate less than the bullet that lost no weight but wadded up to twice its original size ?
Regarding the wording on a box of ammo,I have never seen an wording that indicated what the amount of energy loss after contact with the target would be nor how much penetration there would be.
I do not understand what you mean with your statement that (we all know what it is there for).
 
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