[pruhdlr]

Thanks Much

Thank you sir for the info. However .... with the short bbl(10.5") I am more inclined to believe that my vels will be more around 2200-2300fps at the muzzle for a 95gr. Please correct this if you think I can get more from the 95gr.

Expense is no factor. A half a box or so to work up some loads ..... then hunting only. Again ..... I really appreciate this info. --- pruhdlr

 

[Texas Hog Man]

Thank you sir for the info. However .... with the short bbl(10.5") I am more inclined to believe that my vels will be more around 2200-2300fps at the muzzle for a 95gr. Please correct this if you think I can get more from the 95gr.

Expense is no factor. A half a box or so to work up some loads ..... then hunting only. Again ..... I really appreciate this info. --- pruhdlr

actually with handloads I think I'll be pretty close for the 95ttsx...Im getting 2785fps from my 16"..atke 16-10.5=5.5 x 55fps (average velocity loss per inch of barrel=302.5..so I was guessing you should see about 2480 @ the muzzle

I hope you would get more than 2200-2300 as my 7.2" MDWS barrel gets 2310fps

if you know the expansion minimum velocity and BC for the other bullets your looking at I can fill you in on that info...just PM me so we dont derail X-mans thread too much :a19:

 

[StingRay]

Could we not make this a sticky? I keep referring to it but have to hunt and peck each time. Last time I found it thru Google.

 

[Xman]

Not to put you on the spot, but after all the testing ..... What would your top picks be now?

Coming out a 10.5" bbl .... which bullet for hogs and deer at <150yds would you recommend.

THM, in this thread, my objective is to provide a consistent test process and post results so others can make their own decisions. I try to keep my opinions out of it. Everyone's hunting situations are different and, fortunately for the 6.8mm SPC, we have many great bullets to choose from making the 6.8mm an excellent hunting platform.

I honestly do not have a favorite 6.8mm bullet. In fact, I've enjoyed testing so much, I haven't stopped to do accuracy development for any hunting bullets for the 18" ARP configuration I have now plus I just started a 20" ARP project this past week. Having experienced so many different and good bullets in the 6.8 hasn't made it easy to choose a favorite either. Just when I thought I could narrow it down, some new bullets arrive on the scene - see the next two posts on the 80 HV and 99 HV from GS Custom, and 100 GMX from Hornady. However, you and pruhdlr bring up three situations for which I would like to share my opinion.

Elk - when I hunt elk, I rely on my .270 Win and 130 GMX. Engagement ranges have been from 250 to 400 yards. To me, the 6.8mm is basically a .270 Win minus about 300 yards. If I were to hunt elk with 6.8mm, I would consider 110 TSX, 100 GMX, and 99 HV from the group of monolithic bullets. The 110 AccuBond would be the top choice for a lead-core bullet.

Personal Protection - to me this means close encounters where you want to limit over-penetration. The Sierra 90 HP and Hornady 110 Vmax expand very rapidly in-close. In terminal testing, they expend all their energy in the water jug and don't even make it into the bullet trap at 100 yards.

Short Barrels for Hunting - pruhdlr, a short barrel has some interesting challenges with respect to velocity and getting sufficient kinetic energy for bullet expansion. You asked about 95gr TTSX, 85gr E-Tip, and the 85gr TSX. Your order is what I would suggest except for leaving the 85 TSX off the list because it needs 2100 fps to function. However, there are two more you should consider and would be at the front of the list, the 80gr and 99gr HV from GS Custom. These bullets will achieve more muzzle velocity because of their unique drive-band design. When Hornady releases their new 100 GMX, that would be right behind them. If lead-core bullets are an option, the 120 SST might be a consideration because it carries its energy well and looks like it will function at velocities below 1700 fps. This is the on-line ballistics calculator I use.

http://www.hornady.com/ballistics-resource/ballistics-calculator

 

[Xman]

GS Custom Bullets for the 6.8mm SPC

GS Custom Bullets, a company based in South Africa, provided samples of their 6.8mm/.277" 80gr and 99gr HV bullets for load development and terminal performance testing. These are monolithic, all-copper hunting bullets that are compatible with the 6.8mm and can be loaded within AR magazine length. The 99 HV was designed specifically for the 6.8. These GSC bullets are manufactured in America and are unique in that their bore diameter is undersize and they have multiple "drive bands" as gas seals. This provides a bullet with less internal friction that can be driven to higher than typical 6.8-velocities using faster powders. The link below will take you to a detailed test report.

http://68forums.com/forums/showthread.php?50726-GS-Custom-Bullets-for-the-6-8mm-SPC

On impact, these bullets expand with 3 pedals. Above 2600 fps, the pedals are designed to break off allowing a flat-nose slug to penetrate. The Raptor bullets that HTR has been testing function in a similar manner (and similar cost). GS Custom has determined that flat-faced slugs create larger wound channels than a rounded mushroomed bullet. At slower speeds, the three pedals are retained and wrap down the sides of the bullet leaving a slightly larger frontal area. Minimum expansion velocity is designed to be 1600 fps. You can see the comparison below of recovered bullets. I did not do the standard terminal performance series at 100 - 200 - 300 yards. Instead, tests were accomplished above and below 2600 fps impact velocities to see how the bullets performed with and without their pedals. The slower speed bullets (pedals retained) were fired from a .270 Win with Trail Boss. I had hoped for these would have been slower impact speeds but these drive-band bullets were more than 200 fps faster than my Trail Boss loads for other 6.8mm bullets. With their pedals shed, these bullets penetrate deep (1500 pages of the phonebook and 6 to 7 magazines). This penetration potential should make the 99 HV suitable for larger game. With the pedals retained they transfer the energy quickly and penetrate 900 (99 HV) to 1300 (80 HV) pages of the phonebook. The 80gr penetrated deeper because its thinner pedals fold back more resulting in less frontal area.

From 6.8 SPC II - 18" ARP 1:11 barrel
80gr GS Custom HV - 3260 fps (32.5gr Re7) [BC 0.258]
99gr GS Custom HV - 2950 fps (31.3gr AA2200) [BC 0.313]

Caution - this load worked in my rifle but this is no guarantee that they will work safely in yours.
Go to the First Page for Quick Links to all the bullets tested.

Hunting Experience

I was fortunate to harvest a 100-pound pig with the GSC HV bullets. It was a 150-yard shot at night in the sitting position using an LED spot-light. The 80 HV was in the chamber when the hammer dropped with the pig quartering away slightly. When all the dust settled from under the feeder as the sounder scurrying away, the pig was down 5 yards from where it was hit but still alive. A 99 HV to the neck was final. The 80 HV was a pass-through but had hit farther back on the body than desired (my bad). The bullet's wound channel must have affected the spine which immobilized the pig. I only took the hams off the pig so did not view any internal trauma from the 80 HV (there is plenty of that on the GSC website). The 99 HV to the neck ended up going directly through the spine. At this close range and impact velocity, the 99 HV would have lost its 3 petals and penetrate as a flat-faced slug. What was impressive was the small diameter slug left a much larger diameter wound channel that was wide enough to easily slide my index finger through including the hole left in the spine. One hog down is not conclusive, but I felt the HV hunting experience was positive. Especially when contrasted with two smaller pigs, about 30 to 40 pounds each, I shot earlier that day at the same feeder with Federal 90gr Gold Dots. Each pig had two shots to the body and still ran 75 and 150 yards before expiring. Unlike the HV's flat-faced slug, the 90 GD expands into a smooth rounded mushroom. Other hunters have reported limited effectiveness hunting hogs with the 90 GDs. This experience is causing me to rethink how a bullet expands and tends to support what GS Custom claims - high-speed, flat-faced slugs generates an effective wound cavity.

 

[Xman]

100gr Hornady GMX

Note that this thread is now a "Sticky" so you will always find it located at the top of the "Hunting with the 6.8 mm" topics

Thank RicMic for contributing these bullets for testing. He was lucky enough to purchase these as "no-name" bullets from MidSouth (285-27190B100). Hornady has confirmed this is their newest GMX bullet designed specifically for the 6.8mm and plans to release them in time for the 2014 Fall Hunting season. The 130gr GMX is my go-to bullet for my .270 Win so I was eager to test this .277" 100gr version. The GMX is a monolithic bullet containing 5% zinc and 95% copper making them harder than the all-copper Barnes or GS Custom bullets. The GMX expands rapidly and penetrate deep. They fold open with 6 small pedals that form into a solid expanded slug at higher energy levels. I've found the .277" GMX 130gr is fully expanded by the inside of an elk's near-side ribcage. I've recovered 130gr .270 and 165gr .308 GMXs from elk after deep penetration (32" to full body length). They do not expand quite as wide as the Barnes TSX/TTSX bullets but they are tougher and hold together better. This has been the case across the major calibers from .223, .243, .270, to .308.

During terminal performance testing, the new 6.8 GMX bullets expanded rapidly. Even at an impact velocity of 1700 fps, the 100gr GMX's interacted violently with the gallon water jug and still blew it to pieces. You can see the large hollow point/expansion cavity which appears larger than other GMX calibers tested. Hornady advised me in 2012 that they were working on a design that would allow a GMX to open down to 1600 fps - this bullet must be the result of that development. The penetration of this bullet across all ranges was between 1400 pages of the 1500-page phonebook and into the first magazine. Even the minimum velocity test did not over-penetrate which is non-typical (as a bullet slows, they typically penetrate deeper because they have less frontal area/expand less). This is the most consistent penetration across the speed range of any bullet I've tested in any caliber.

Below are pictures of the recovered bullets showing their expansion from 100 to 300 yards and a minimum velocity test in a .270 using TrailBoss. Note that some of the small pedals that initiate expansion did break off reducing the retained weight slightly.

Update 14 Mar 2015 - first reported kills with the 100 GMX on multiple 200+ lbs Boar by TEXASLAWMAN
http://68forums.com/forums/showthread.php?55188-First-kills-with-the-Hornady-100gr-GMX
chuckf250 with a deer harvest
http://68forums.com/forums/showthread.php?81162-100gmx
Bootleg6.8 with a cow elk
http://68forums.com/forums/showthre...hp?105314-Best-Factory-Ammo-for-Whitetail-Deer&p=1210297&viewfull=1#post1210297

From 6.8 SPC II - 18" ARP 1:11 barrel

100gr Hornady GMX [BC 0.310] - 2.295" COAL
2685 fps (28.5gr AA2200) used in testing below (resized Hornady, CCI 450)
2750 fps (29.5gr AA2200) near max for SPC II (new SSA brass, CCI 450)

Caution - these loads worked in my rifle but this is no guarantee that they will work safely in yours.
Go to the First Page for Quick Links to all the bullets tested.

Updated 26 April 2015 - When testing the .223 55gr GMX, I found that the GMX bullets were always loosing their pedals going through the phonebook and had to switch to using the alternative bullet trap. This experience made me question whether this was the case with the 6.8mm 100gr GMX which had also lost pedals in prior testing (shown above). Testing the 100gr GMX in the alternative bullet trap (wet soaked newspaper) did show near perfect weight retention at high energy levels (no pedal loss). I had only two 100 GMXs remain so did a min-max velocity test. The min velocity test verified successful expansion in the 1600 fps range though two of the six pedals were lost which was also the case in the prior testing. Measured expansion between both bullet trapping methods was within 0.015" which is essentially the same result.

 

[68WJ]

Outstanding. Velocity can surely be better too.

 

[leatherneck]

Looks very promising. I look forward to more testing and load development.

Anyone have any idea of a specific date for release and price range for these bullets. Hunting season is getting close, Hornady better get to it soon.

 

[68WJ]

Looks very promising. I look forward to more testing and load development.

Anyone have any idea of a specific date for release and price range for these bullets. Hunting season is getting close, Hornady better get to it soon.

They missed the prime hunting window with their SST release a few years ago too. I would say it is an established bullet option now though.

 

[6.8 Mega]

Hey Xman, do you still plan on testing the speer 130's or did you ever receive any for testing?

 

[Xman]

do you still plan on testing the speer 130's?

Yes, gicos contributed some Speer 130 and CatDaddy some 100 and 130 Rem Corelokt. PostalBound sent Hornady 100 SPs. I'm hoping to complete testing this weekend in side-by-side comparisons. It may take me a week or so to compile the results.

 

[Xman]

They missed the prime hunting window with their SST release a few years ago too. I would say it is an established bullet option now though.

Looks like they might be a bit late to the party with the GMX also. Hornady advised the 6.8mm 100 GMX "ammo will start shipping probably in November." They weren't sure when the component would be for sale to reloaders. They also said the factory ammo will be crimped. "The minute someone has a dropped primer in an improperly timed gun we'll have reports everywhere of hot ammo. That's why we staked the primers."

 

[1slow01Z71]

The 100gr GMX could be just what Im looking for to run in my 12.5". The SST seems to do fine but it wouldn't hurt to get some extra velocity with approximately the same expansion threshold. My max shot will be 300yds so these would be right up my alley.

 

[bensuggs1]

This is great info thanks for all your work on this.

 

[jmnielsen]

Thanks for all this testing XMAN! I'm using the 110 vmax this year for coyote hunting, so I'm glad to see it's performance out to 400 yds is acceptable. The new 100gr GMX has me very interested! It seems like it would be an excellent deer round, and I wouldn't mind trying some this year. Doesn't look like they'll have them out in time for Nebraska deer season though.

 

[Xman]

100gr Hornady Soft Point (SP) and Remington Point Soft Point (PSP)

Thank PostalBound and CatDaddy for contributing these 100gr soft-points for testing. These bullets are intended to be varmint bullets and look like they could be twins. Their terminal performance, however, is notably different. Both bullets were loaded with 29.5gr of AA2200. A picture of the recovered bullets is below.

From 6.8 SPC II - 18" ARP 1:11 barrel (90F)
100gr Hornady SP - 2775 fps (29.5gr AA2200) [BC 0.307] - 2.295" COAL
100gr Remington PSP - 2815 fps (29.5gr AA2200) [BC 0.252] - 2.295" COAL

Caution - this load worked in my rifle but this is no guarantee that they will work safely in yours.
Go to the First Page for Quick Links to all the bullets tested.

 

[Xman]

100gr Hornady Soft Points (SP)

Observations

This bullet breaks-up on impact releasing its lead core to fragment. At 100 yards, this bullet expanded rapidly and only penetrated half-way through the phonebook with the cooper jacket's base recovered 500 pages in and the largest lead fragment at 700 pages. If you look closely at the inside of the copper jacket, you will see that it has a layer of dirt on it. The water slug created by the impact with the water jug, actually splashed dirt off the ground back up into the bullet's trajectory before the bullet entered the bullet trap showing that the lead-core had separated form the jacket immediately after impact. In close, this bullet expands and fragments so abruptly that there likely will be no exit wound if used on a deer. The 200-yard impact found the copper jacket at 1400 pages and the largest fragment through the phonebook resting at the cover of the first magazine. At 300 yards, this bullet literally unzipped (see picture below). I found a full side-section of its jack carried five feet away by the water spay at impact. A repeat test had the same results. Penetration of the lead fragments was 300 to 600 pages into the phonebook. I did used TrailBoss in my .270 to do equivalent 400-yard tests and found the bullet held together at 1700 and 1850 fps. The SP's minimum opening velocity is around 1950 fps.

A consideration if you plan to use this bullet at longer range. Velocity variation was more than expected with this bullet which may reduce its accuracy potential. Examination found bullet diameters varied considerably. PostalBound provided both new and old production bullets and there was a significant variation in quality when 5 bullets were measured for comparison.
Old Hornady SP production Lot No. 8-10376 = .2767" (all five)
New Hornady SP production Lot No. 2110392 = .2762 to .2767 (all different)

Here is a link to thread where a deer was harvested with a Hornady SP at 250 yards.
http://68forums.com/forums/showthread.php?59138-Another-one-down-with-6-8

Update from PostalBound
Shot at 80 yds. Shows inside the ribcage. Entrance on left, exit on right. No shoulder was hit. The jacket nor core was found.

 

[Xman]

100gr Remington Point Soft Points (PSP)

Observations

For two bullets that look almost identical from the outside, their ability to fragment was quite different. While Hornady's 100 SP will function out to 300 yards and beyond, Remington's 100 PSP could not reach out to 200 yards and still function. At 100 yards, the PSP held together longer resulting in deeper penetration with the copper jacket recovered 1300 pages into the phonebook and the lead-core into the first magazine. At 200 yards, the PSP remained intact and over-penetrated through the phonebook and 11 magazines. A second shot at 200 yards confirmed the first result. Cooper jacket thickness for the PSP was 0.023" at the nose while the jacket thickness on the 100 SP was 0.017". This thicker copper jacket is a likely contributor to the higher minimum opening velocity for the 100 PSP which is above 2150 fps.

The two 100 PSP 200-yard tests confirmed the suspicion I have had with soft-point bullets. When they are at or below their minimum opening velocity, their lead tips still get blown off but the copper jacket is strong enough to maintain structural integrity. These type impacts leave evidence of a very small amount of lead fragmentation but the bullet remains intact and continues on like an OTM (not the open bullet tip in the picture above). BTW, I have not found an OTM that expands at the tip. They typically yawed on impact then fragment, or, if they don't fragment, they completely swap ends and exit tail first (.277 Berger VLD).

 

[sealer39]

Thanks for all your work and continued testing.

 

[dwb]

Thanks x-man for your work,been thinking about getting some of the rem. 100 gr. soft points. You saved me some money thanks . Lol