[Xman]

So is it fair to say that the 90GD's are performing very similar to the 95TTSX, just has lead in it and is less expensive? The numbers and the test bullets seem to be behaving very much alike.

Homeland, there have been no tests done with the 90gr Gold Dot yet so no conclusions can be made. We are still trying to track down some 90gr GDs for testing.

 

[MDWS]

Homeland, there have been no tests done with the 90gr Gold Dot yet so no conclusions can be made. We are still trying to track down some 90gr GDs for testing.

I've got some showing up today or tomorrow. They're live factory rounds, though. How many do you need for testing?

 

[Xman]

7 is the minimum I need to perform the 100, 200, and 300 yard tests. However, its advisable to have a couple extra to cover any anomalies or retests that are needed.

 

[MDWS]

7 is the minimum I need to perform the 100, 200, and 300 yard tests. However, its advisable to have a couple extra to cover any anomalies or retests that are needed.

Ok I'll send you 10 of them UPS ground. PM me your address if you're up for it. Happy to contribute. If I send you a whole box, can I special request a certain media test if allowable at your range? Nothing crazy, just a cinder clock and drywall type thing... Let me know!

 

[Xman]

Thanks, Homeland for the contribution. I won't be able to do alternative testing at my range.

 

[MDWS]

Thanks, Homeland for the contribution. I won't be able to do alternative testing at my range.

Hey no problem, was worth asking. Got your PM - will have 10 rounds headed your way in the next day or two. Thanks!

 

[Xman]

Round 2 - 300 Yards

I'm still catching up. This is Round 2 (con't) and finishes the 300-yard terminal performance testing for the HP/OTM bullets that got rained out two sessions ago. The velocity numbers have change from before as I am now using an 18-inch ARP Barrel.

90gr Sierra HP - 2955 fps (29.5gr RE7) [BC 0.210]
110gr Hornady V-Max - 2710 fps (28.6gr AA2200) [BC 0.370]
110gr Hornady HP - 2690 fps (28.5gr AA2200) [BC 0.352]
110gr Hornady BTHP - 2690 fps (28.6gr AA2200) [BC 0.360]
115gr Nosler Match - 2630 fps (28.0gr AA2200) [BC 0.375]

Caution - these loads worked in my rifle but this is no guarantee that they will work safely in yours.
Go to the First Page for Quick Links to all the bullets tested.

 

[Xman]

Observations

90gr Sierra HP -I redid the 200 yards test using the RE7 recipe that Aspp provided which yielded 150 fps more at the muzzle. The bullet at 200 yards expanded into little pieces, the largest of which still managed to penetrate through the phonebook and 2 magazines. At 300 yards, there was insufficient velocity to effect bullet expansion. It looked like a repeat of the first 200 yards test as the bullet remained intact, yawed on impact, and went through the phone book and 1 magazine. There was no water jug reaction at 300 yards. It just sat there and I thought I had missed. Velocity is a critical factor in getting this round to expand on impact. Testing indicates that 2050 fps or more is required for expansion, above which it explodes. Below this threshold, the bullet yaws on impact and does not fragment.

110gr Hornady V-Max - It is good that this bullet was added to the HP/OTM line-up for Round 2. Even though it is not a HP or OTM, it is designed for varmints and rapid expansion. In the 300-yard test, the bullet mushroomed penetrating 1000 pages of the phonebook. The water jug blew apart, even at this distance. It remained a single mass of jacket and lead-core as in prior tests. It is generally the rule that a bullet will penetrate deeper at longer ranges. The V-Max is a perfect example. It didn't even make it into the first page of the phonebook at 100 yards, penetrated through 600 pages as 200 yards, and through a 1000 pages in this test. With decreased velocity comes less expansion making it easier for the bullet to penetrate even though it has less velocity/kinetic energy. IMO, the V-Max is the top performer in the 6.8mm Varmint/HP/OTM category. Its opening velocity is much less than 2000 fps and may be worth testing at 400 yards or beyond. Go to the first page to see the 100-yard test results for this bullet. The link to the 200-yard test is http://68forums.com/forums/showthre.../showthread.php?33178-6-8-SPC-Bullet-Performance&p=444275&viewfull=1#post444275.

Link to prior 100- and 200-yard testing for the bullets below is http://68forums.com/forums/showthre.../showthread.php?33178-6-8-SPC-Bullet-Performance&p=417756&viewfull=1#post417756

110gr Hornady HP -In the prior 200-yard tests, the HP bullet consistently yawed on impact and did not fragment. The 300 yard test was no different with over-penetration through the phonebook and 8 magazines. The deformation of the bullet shown in the picture occurred in the paper trap, not the water column. This bullet is may be good for shooting paper but is really designed for .270 Win velocities.

110gr Hornady BTHP - This bullet still performed well at 300 yards. The bullet yawed and fragmented penetrating 1200 pages into the phonebook. There was good water jug action. I'm getting excellent accuracy with this bullet ( < ¾ MOA) and, IMO, is a top performer in the six8 Varmint/HP/OTM category. Its opening velocity is much less than 2000 fps and may be worth testing at 400 yards or beyond. Unfortunately, Hornady has suspended manufacturing of this bullet for 2013 so I will be relying on the 115gr Nosler to take its place.

115gr Nosler Match - This was a no test. I've been getting good accuracy also and had no problem shooting groups less than 3" at 300 yards. However, as the heat of the day set in, heat shimmers became intense. It wasn't bad for the paper target that was over 6 feet off the ground but for the bullet trap sitting on the ground it was significant. I missed the bullet trap with my primary and back-up rounds so have no data at this range. I also missed with my .270 Win which just doesn't happen. I've never shot through heat waves before but it looks like I need to learn. I did order some bulk 115gr Nosler Match to take the place of the Hornady 110gr BTHP so I can do a retest in the next 30 to 60 days.

 

[tikka3]

In one word, "excellent". Thank you X man for taking the time to do this. We all benefit from your results.

 

[jwtharpe]

Your information helps us all, some of the things you have uncovered are very interesting, keep up the good work Xman!

 

[Xman]

Federal Fusion MSR/GD Bullet Performance Comparisons

Several of you have been waiting for this so here is the Federal Fusion/Gold Dot Bullet Comparison.

Federal's 115gr and 120gr Fusion MSR bullets look to be identical in construction to the 90gr Gold Dot (XM68GD). I'm not sure why they call the 90gr a Gold Dot. All the bullets have lead cores that are bonded to their copper jackets similar to Nosler's AccuBond bullets. Currently, the 90gr and 115gr are only available as factory loads. I hope these bullets become available to handloaders in the near future. The 120gr bullets have been discontinued and were sold in bulk at very reasonable prices so many 6.8 shooters acquired a large supply for handloading. Note the 120gr bullets have a long ogive and load to 2.350" which should work fine in a 6.8mm bolt gun but is beyond standard AR magazine length. Some shooters have modified magazines to accommodate this length. Others load the bullet further into the case mouth which can negatively impact neck tension because the body of the bullet only has a ¼-inch bearing surface to begin with, plus you are unlike to be able to set-up a crimp if you use one. Thanks to these forum members for their contributions to this test session.
TheHomelandSoldier for 90gr Gold Dots
Krw17 for the 115gr Fusion MSRs
jwtharpe for the 120gr Fusion MSRs

Here are the average muzzle velocities achieved during this test session.

90gr Federal Gold Dot - 2915 fps (Factory) [BC 0.236]
115gr Federal Fusion MSR - 2490 fps (Factory) [BC 0. 378] corrected to 5-shot average
120gr Federal Fusion MSR - 2550 fps (27.5gr AA2200) [BC 0.400] COAL 2.350"

Caution - this load worked in my rifle but this is no guarantee that it will work safely in yours.
Go to the First Page for Quick Links to all the bullets tested.


Here are the results of 100, 200, and 300 yard testing.

The Nosler 85gr E-Tip and Sierra 90gr HP are shown in the inset for comparison only.

 

[Xman]

Observations

General. Performance of these Federal bullets was very consistent and these general comments apply to all three. They have 5 pedals that peel back during expansion. All bullets mushroomed well at all ranges with the lead core staying attached to the copper jackets. The lead cores are softer than the AccuBond bullets and their mushroom shapes are not as uniform or symmetrical. Most bullets exhibit less expansion as velocity decreases reducing frontal area enough that the bullet will end up penetrating deeper even though they have less kinetic energy at longer range. Because these bullets expanded so well, even as velocity decayed, penetration decreased as range increased which is not typical. Performance for expanding lead-core bullets doesn't get any better than this. Dimension listed for the recovered bullets is taken at its widest point.

90gr Federal Gold Dot - this bullet is relatively new to the market and is sold on-line at PalmettoStateArmory.com. The performance of this bullet was impressive. It expanded so much at 100 yards that the pedals wrapped all the way around making a "ball" with the pedals interlinking behind the base of the bullet (see image below). It also had perfect expansion of all 5 pedals even out to 300 yards (1850 fps) resulting in the largest recorded expansion at this range; 0.630". There was no over-penetration at any range with all bullets stopping within the phonebook; 1200 pages at 100 yards, 600 pages at 200, and 500 pages at 300 yards, just right for small bodied Southern deer. A 300 yard shot may not be a pass through as the far-side hide may be able to contain a bullet that has expanded this much.
Hunting results with the 90gr GD http://68forums.com/forums/showthre...p?33869-WRR-harvests-first-Whitetail-deer-with-Federal-s-6-8-SPC-90-gr-Gold-Dot

A side note that you may find interesting. I pulled one bullet for pictures and observation. The case neck crumpled when trying to insert the flat base bullet back into its original factory case so I dumped the powder into a fired, resized Hornady case. I always have known that different brass has a significant impact on POI and group size. One of my first lessons learned was never mix brass from different manufacturers if you are looking for accuracy, i. e., change brass and group size change and POI can shift. I never realized, however, that it could affect velocity that much. I have seen as much a 40 or 50 fps difference between different 6.8 brass. However, going from new Federal brass to used/fired Hornady brass resulted in a velocity increase of 230 fps (2915 vs 3145 fps mv)! Inspection of the Hornady case post-firing indicated I was as close to blowing out the primers as I've ever come - carbon residue escaped around the primer pocket. I've read before that you don't want to work up to your max loads with new cases because pressure is higher with used cases in a 6.8. Luck was with me on this mistake.

115gr Federal Fusion MSR - Even though the muzzle velocity was significantly less than the 90gr GD, bullet expansion was still good. Penetration was 1400 pages at 100 yards, 1000 at 200 yards, and was not recorded at 300 yards. Prior tests of the 115gr Fusion MSR and comparison with other bullets can be found at these links.

100 yards http://68forums.com/forums/showthre.../showthread.php?33178-6-8-SPC-Bullet-Performance&p=438749&viewfull=1#post438749 (includes comparison with AccuBonds)
200 yards http://68forums.com/forums/showthre.../showthread.php?33178-6-8-SPC-Bullet-Performance&p=444276&viewfull=1#post444276
300 yards http://68forums.com/forums/showthre.../showthread.php?33178-6-8-SPC-Bullet-Performance&p=438667&viewfull=1#post438667
Hunting results with the 115gr Fusion
http://68forums.com/forums/showthre.../showthread.php?33178-6-8-SPC-Bullet-Performance&p=438770&viewfull=1#post438770
http://68forums.com/forums/showthread.php?73818-2-axis-deer&p=872226#post872226

120gr Federal Fusion MSR - These rounds were loaded single shot for testing as their COAL, 2.350", was too long for my 6.8mm magazines. The 120's performed similarly to the other Federal bullets and are a good option for hunters whose 6.8s can accommodate it length. Individual bullet weight varies by more than a grain, you might want to sort your bullets by weight for best accuracy. Because of its higher weight and kinetic energy, the 120's penetrated the farthest of the three; 1500 pages plus 1 magazine at 100 yards, 1500 pages at 200, and 1300 pages at 300 yards. (Note, the piece of lead that looks like a seal's flipper in the lower left of the 100 yard 120gr is a fragment and not part of the 0.689" expansion measurement.)

14 November 2013 Update:
I was fortunate to harvest a doe at 190 yards with a 90gr Federal Gold Dot. The bullet hit the shoulder on the near-side, penetrated the rib cage and chest cavity, then broke the back two ribs on the far-side before being contained by the hide. With no exit wound, there was no blood trail. I would have expected the bullet to exit if the shoulder hadn't been hit. The doe ran 75 yards then folded up. The recovered bullet is pictured below. This bullet mushroomed very symmetrically and weighted 86.9 grains, retaining 97% of its weight. The terminal results from the bullet trap have matched closely with actual results for other bullets but not as well in this situation. Based on this recovered 90gr Gold Dot, I would expect the other Fusion MSR bullets to expand more symmetrically and retain more weight than shown from the test results above. I was impressed with the Fusion/GD bullets after the terminal performance testing above which gave me confidence to hunt with them. I am even more impressed with them now after witnessing actual results.

Here are 90 GDs recovered from hogs -
http://68forums.com/forums/showthread.php?44223-Recovered-a-90gr-gold-dot-from-a-hog
http://68forums.com/forums/showthread.php?45194-90gr-GD-recovered-from-stumpy-pig

Here is a link to 90 GD wound channels for deer - http://68forums.com/forums/showthread.php?44414-Deer-Kills-w-XM68GD-90gr-Gold-Dot

24 June 2014 Update:
Hunting results on hogs with 90 Gold Dots pulled from factory ammo and sold as a component have not been impressive (link below). It is not know if these pulled GDs are any different than the Federal Factory ammunition. I have since shot two small pigs with the factory 90 GD at 175 yards which ran some distance before expiring.

 

[richholland]

Thanks for the update XMan!

Seems that all three of these are very good performers, and would be good for self defense and hunting medium game.

 

[Xman]

I found a view of the bullets from the bottom was just as telling as from the top. Noticed how the 90gr bullet wrapped around itself at 100 yards. I've never seen anything like this before. Also, notice how uniform the 90gr's expansion was at all ranges

[

 

[MDWS]

Thanks Xman!!

 

[Xman]

Thank you, Homeland, for contributing the rounds!!! Did you expect the 90gr to perform this well?

 

[MDWS]

I didn't actually... And you're welcome! We all gained from it so it was totally my pleasure. I'm actually quite shocked they did so well. If they group as well as they perform I think I found a new go to round. Your work is much appreciated, thanks again.

 

[jwtharpe]

Xman, since we last discussed the BC on the 120, I have read in a couple of different places where the BC on it is said to be between .410 and .430. I am also developing a load for it that is going to be close to 2800fps from a 22" barrel I'm at 2750 now and not near topped out , based on your experience, what would be the maximum distance this load would reliably expand at? Thank you for all that you do!

 

[Xman]

If they group as well as they perform I think I found a new go to round.

That is what I forgot to comment on. Accuracy out of an 18" ARP barrel for a 3-shot group was 1.8" at 300 yards, 0.6 MOA.

 

[Xman]

from a 22" barrel I'm at 2750 now and not near topped out , based on your experience, what would be the maximum distance this load would reliably expand at?

jwtharpe, you provided me enough bullets that I can work up a higher performance load (thanks again). The 27.5 grains of AA2200 I used let me get testing right away with a safe load at respectable velocities (it was faster than the factory 115gr). You are achieving 200 fps more with your load and a 22" barrel. What recipe are you using?

I would predict effective performance with the 120gr Fusion and your set-up at 500 yards. I will use my 18" ARP and do some more load development then test out to 500 yards when I do testing with my .270 Win with Nosler's new 150gr AccuBond Long Range at that distance. I'll do the V-Max, also.