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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Plant Hunting Tree Hat Wood

12.5” ARP, 6.8 with 120gr Cavity Back 27.5 AA2200 COAL at 2.35 using windowed PRI mag, 2500 FPS, Form 1 suppressor (which is outstanding).

Shot at 40ish yards. Hit him twice, both double lungs. First shot he went down on the front legs, then I banged him again, and he rolled over.

Terminal performance was great as he didn’t move, however I was surprised I did not get full penetrations. The bullets showed about 1” diameter entry wounds then about 5x4” exit wounds in the lungs. Did not see any evidence of impact on the off ribs and did not recover the bullets, both of which I found odd.

His body cavity was completely full of blood, so perhaps the bullets were in the shit I had to keep rolling him over to dump out. Regardless, I just found the lack full penetration surprising.

But It’s hard to argue with a bang flop on a bull.

ETA: Hutning suppressed is awesome. The “Thwop” of the hits were loud.
 

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Time for the nay sayers to start screaming that you cannot shoot elk with this caliber, it'd be unethical. Well... not if your ranges are good, as well as your shot placement. Good ammo helps too. Congrats on a fine bull.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
Thanks. I wouldn’t use it in open fields, but I knew this hunt would be close range. As in no more than 100 yards tops, but realistically under 50, exactly how it happened for me and my nephew who also got a bull.

His bull was hit with a 308 150 gr accubond at 2600 from a 16” through both lungs and did exhibit full penetration; his ran about 100 yards. It was difficult to find it as there was no blood trail and these woods are thick.

I just don’t understand how my bullets displayed obvious massive exit wounds in the lungs, but didn’t show signs of impact on the offside ribs…
 

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The more bullet expansion you have, the quicker the bullet dumps its energy. In my bullet tests, I typically had bullets penetrate further at longer distance and even had some smaller caliber bullets penetrating deeper than a larger one. Example, in a 500 yard test of a .270 Win and a 300 WMag both shooting GMX bullets, the .270 penetrated deeper. The .270 had less KE but the larger expansion of the .308 bullet caused by the WMag's higher KE resulted in the .308 bullet transferring its energy to the animal at a faster rate, thus less penetration. One of the few bullets that did not penetrate deeper as range increased was the 110 Vmax.

The elk I shot at 200 yards with a 105 MKZ was a double lung pass through. At your close-in range, your MKZ had to have quick and large expansion (close to an inch by your description of the entrance wound) and rapidly dumping all its energy with the MKZ's tri-star wound cavity which causes massive blood lose as you experienced.
 

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Congrats.......great hunt. Clean harvest. Big ass horns to be proud of. Hope your nephews Bull was as nice. Merry Xmas
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
XMan, that was my only hypothesis; that the close range caused massive expansion and thus limited the penetration. However, because the lungs were fully penetrated, I expected to see at least evidence of impact on the off ribs. And maybe there was, it just wasn’t obvious.
As much as I would have loved to conduct a thorough postmortem autopsy for terminal ballistics research… I had a big ass animal 10+ miles away from camp to deal with..

Like I implied earlier, regardless of the terminal science minutia, a bang flop is a bang flop. A 6.8 SBR loaded correctly, used within its proper range parameters, with proper shot placement will put a bull down its tracks.

Here is a pic of a lung:
Automotive tire Wood Grass Trunk Art
 

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My thought is that a perfect bullet will enter, expend all of its energy and exit with just enough energy left to fall to the ground on the off side of the animal. Sounds like yours did all but the last thing. A bang flop is a bang flop. Well done Sir and Congratulations on a fine Bull. Yes I agree hunting suppressed is awesome. (y)
 
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There is one aspect of terminal performance that often is forgotten. Because the offside hide is strong and flexible, it acts like a catcher's mitt. I've had two 120 SSTs shots on deer where the bullet fragmented, shed its jacket, and left a hole in the offside rib cage big enough to put my fist through ... but no exit wound. The hide contained all the fragments.

An elk's hide is thicker than a deer's. I wouldn't be surprised this is what happened in your situation. Especially, as large as the MKZ expands inside 100 yards.
 

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Congratulations on your successful elk hunt.

Terminal performance can sometimes be a difficult phenomenon to predict and reproduce. There are way too many variables once a bullet touches the hair let alone everything else inside of the animal. My personal preference is to always have an exit wound to aid in tracking. I don't have any personal experience with CBB, so my opinion doesn't account for much, however if I had the same performance I would not discount the bullet.

Sometime ago, I was shooting a 45 ACP at milk jugs filled with water. I was using the wicked-evil Black Talons. If several milk jugs were lined up, the bullet would leave about 4"-6" exit holes and would end up in the third jug with most of the plastic jugs intact. The bullets did not always have perfect expansion. If I was shooting just single water filled jug, the jug would be shredded, no pieces bigger than about 2"-4" except just the bottom of the jug that was sheared off at ground. The perfectly expanded bullets would be sitting in the front third of the bottom. This is nearly the exact opposite of what would be predicted and most experience when shooting water filled jugs. It is possible the CBBs acted similarly when striking the elk lungs, to the Black Talons and lone milk jugs.
 
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Thanks. He went down hard. With how much blood was in his cavity (think gallons), I I imagine his lungs just popped like a water balloon, causing an instant drop in blood pressure and loss of consciousness. There was also positive pressure in his body. When I made the first incision into his abdomen, lots of air came out.
 

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Not sure on what bullet you used but at that velocity and distance its quite possible that the bullet turned and grenaded. Sure looks like that in the pics. Sometimes, depends on bullet of course, all that's left is parts of the shredded copper and little black spatters of lead on the inside of the rib cage. Like you said, finding that in the resulting remnant is not normal. I have not hunted with my 6.8 yet. I have always used partitions and they very reliably launch the bottom half of the bullet through the far side. I have also used VLD's and they leave nothing but fragments of copper and that black spatter.

Nice take! And I have always found shooting one in the woods is a lot more challenging than a long distance shot so that is some great hunting you did.
 

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Not sure on what bullet you used but at that velocity and distance its quite possible that the bullet turned and grenaded. Sure looks like that in the pics. Sometimes, depends on bullet of course, all that's left is parts of the shredded copper and little black spatters of lead on the inside of the rib cage. Like you said, finding that in the resulting remnant is not normal. I have not hunted with my 6.8 yet. I have always used partitions and they very reliably launch the bottom half of the bullet through the far side. I have also used VLD's and they leave nothing but fragments of copper and that black spatter.

Nice take! And I have always found shooting one in the woods is a lot more challenging than a long distance shot so that is some great hunting you did.
He said cavity back . They are lead Free and don't turn or grenade . They open fast and huge, especially at that range/ velocity , and become a copper parachute.

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... a mechanical broadhead for rifles
 
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