[FC1982]

How many of you out there have 9mm uppers on your AR? Like it? How about those of you that run .22lr conversions? I am thinking about going one of these directions to reduce training cost, and of course just to have another toy.

Set me straight on the pros and cons, I just threw a few out there off the top of my head, add all that you feel I missed or should have added.

.22LR

Pros:
-Low (vs. 9mm) initial cost
-Cheap ammo
-Ammo is easy to find (relatively, at least around here)
-Conversion kit and mags are all that's needed

Cons:
-Reliability
-dirty to shoot
-?

9mm

Pros:
-Reliability
-Uses dedicated upper
-ammo (cheaper than 5.56 or 6.8, harder to get around here though)
-Feedback closer to 5.56 when training

Cons;
-Initial cost
-Dedicated upper
-ammo (cheaper than 5.56 or 6.8, harder to get around here though)

 

[kamojo]

I don't own any 9mm pistols so that was my deciding factor for buying 22lr vs 9mm. I have a spikes didicated upper and it is 100% reliable with good ammo. It does get dirty but the chrome bolt is east to clean. They can be picky with ammo but once you find what it likes your gtg. It was actually a impulse buy but I shoot it more than anything I own.

 

[aquajon]

The 22 conversion kits have terrible accuracy, I would go with a dedicated 22 upper if you went that route. I have a 9mm upper and want a 22 upper as well. Nice thing about 9mm is that it's not that much more than quality 22 these days. Certainly less than the $0.50/round for .223 or $1.00+/round for 6.8. 9mm also can be used for practical uses like duty or home defense, not just training.

Of the two, I would get a dedicated 9mm setup first, but I would (and will soon) own both.
You can get a 9mm upper for about what a .22 dedicated upper will cost you also.

 

[FC1982]

I was thinking about a RRA 9mm upper, haven't done my research on either caliber though...just tossing around the idea.

 

[ron169]

Now thats a tough choice. I think its funny that you have dedicated upper and ammo listed as a pro and con for the 9mm though. I think I would lean towards the Spikes 22 for two reasons. Reason one is you can run it without a stock or receiver tube; which looks freaking awesome. Reason two is you can cheaply store 10K rounds of ammo for SHTF purposes, and the .22 LR is an effective round for small game such as squirrels and rabbits which would be important in a SHTF scenario. Also, if you ever went supressed, the Supressor for the 6.8 would work on the .22

 

[FC1982]

Now thats a tough choice. I think its funny that you have dedicated upper and ammo listed as a pro and con for the 9mm though. I think I would lean towards the Spikes 22 for two reasons. Reason one is you can run it without a stock or receiver tube; which looks freaking awesome. Reason two is you can cheaply store 10K rounds of ammo for SHTF purposes, and the .22 LR is an effective round for small game such as squirrels and rabbits which would be important in a SHTF scenario. Also, if you ever went supressed, the Supressor for the 6.8 would work on the .22

I never really thought about it for the SHTF type scenarios, I think I got that covered with other rifles. I am really looking at it from the training side of things.

 

[Clint]

One point that hasn't been mentioned about training is the recoil.
Part of training is to learn muscle memory in controlling recoil for quick follow ups.
22lr has nothing and 9mm just a little more, so from that standpoint, your muscles are learning the wrong thing. However, there are other things like trigger control that you can get a benefit from.

Bottom line, just be aware that it's not the same thing and make sure to mix in some *full power* 556 loads into your training too.

 

[ron169]

I never really thought about it for the SHTF type scenarios, I think I got that covered with other rifles. I am really looking at it from the training side of things.

Well, If you are only looking for trigger time, then the .22 would be the one.

I saw a post by Rob_S a couple months that made sense to me. It could be a disadvantage to train with .22 when your go to rifle is .223 or 6.8. The reason is as follows. In my opinion, the three most important parts to defensive shooting when your life depends on it are. By three most important, Im only talking about firearm type dependant, not referring to stance, sites, positioning etc.

1. Shot placement
2. Follow up shot routine/placement
3. Reloads

1. Shot Placement

With either the 9mm or .22 upper, this will remain the same as the .223 or 6.8. So call it ''good training and muscle memory'' Only downside is weight which shouldnt make a difference. Call that a push.

2. Follow up shot routine/Placement

With both the 9mm and the .22, the amount of recoil will be a lot less than that of the 6.8, which would lead to bad muscle memory, which is a no-no. You may get into the habit of a quick double tap, which with your goto gun, would resultin a miss on the second shot.

3.Reloads

I cant speak for the 9mm, but most, if not all, of the .22 uppers fail to lock open after last round. Once again, that would lead to bad muscle memory. Also, the mags are a lot different, especially the 9mm mags, which may confuse you in a SHTF scenario.

 

[rob_s]

Ron posted a lot of what I was going to say.

Basically, the usefulness of either is more limited for training purposes than most people realize. Between having a different recoil, to a different size magazine, to a different manual of arms (does it lock back on an empty magazine or not?), and in some cases a different setup than the primary there is a strong possibility of learning bad habits as they relate to the primary.

All of that said, I'd get the .22, but I'd get a complete upper not just a conversion bolt. I just think that the .22 has more utility OUTSIDE of an actual training stand-in than the 9mm does. The .22 can be a GREAT way to teach newbies and women, and since that beginning level should be slow-fire anyway the recoil/followup/reloads shouldn't be an issue at that stage.