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Oh you misunderstood. I didn't say a heart/lung shot is pointless. I am saying if you aim as Texas Boar Hunters suggests and you miss deep you hit heart if you miss toward head you hit ear.

I do disagree with you on the point about ear shot is not lethal.

Here is a pig I shot in heart. It was DRT. It walked behind a palmetto and I misjudged how far it walked. The point I have been trying to make is you can aim CNS and miss to heart. On a deer that isn't the case.

View attachment 73780
I don't think you understand what you are trying to say
 

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I got guns, you got guns, we all got guns! Free to the bone, please do not f**k with me.
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You can kill anything with a well placed shot. I would never use .223 or 5.56 on a game animal if i don't have to. And I don't. I have 6.8spc, .270win, or .308win to increase my chances. I would recommend you do the same, move away from shooting game animals with .223 or 5.56, we stopped using it after extremely poor performance in general.
 

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I've taken on NC whitetail with a 16" 5.56 hand load, 55 grain core-lokt at 45-55 yards. I was a dumba$$ and didn't check the scope so hit a bit far back. Bullet traveled right to left (referenced tail to head) and was found between hide and meat on the offside. fortunately it clipped the liver all the way...looked like you stuck the top of the liver in a meat cuber and pulled it back out...DAMN. Fortunately I was intimately familiar with the woods. Deer went maybe 100 yards and flopped. I went where I figured she would go and found her easy enough, ZERO blood.

Tried using a 75 grain factory Gold Dot on another, but missed...not sure how, dusted a 4-6 oz tomato paste can at same distance later that day with the same rifle/ammo combo.

I agree with many here, it's adequate, but I would go bigger if you can. At least to the 6.8 or 7.62x39 or even 300 BO with the right ammo. Keep shot distance and placement as optimal as you can and you should be ok with the 223. It's not my first choice, but I wouldn't turn it down either. Bullet choice will be HUGE.

Oh, and BTW, the core-lokt looked BEAUTIFUL upon retrieving it. All the best!
 
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My daughter took her first SC whitetail with the .223 using a 62 grain Federal Fusion. She dropped a 100 pound doe in her tracks. Which was a good thing, there was no exit wound. We switched to .300 Blk and 6.8 thereafter.
 

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Shot many hogs and deer with various .223 bullets. Proper shot and placement and heavier constructed bullets are effective
 

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Do anyone have any experience with 223 Rem On Deer & Hogs? I want to use it but before that want to know how it works.
Before going to 6.8 for hunting, 5.56 was all I used. I still use one as my loaner/beat around gun.

If you're hunting with it, keep the distance reasonable, use premium ammo, be patient for a good shot to present itself & you shouldn't have any problems. For me, that meant I kept my shots to 100 yards or less, used Fusion ammo, and took broadside shots on deer & neck shots (CNS) on pigs. It never let me down if I did my part.

Nothing wrong with it, as long as you do your part.

Yes, there are better calibers for hunting (better distance, better terminal performance, etc., etc.), but .223 is capable of putting deer & hogs down, and that shouldn't even be a question for debate today with as much evidence has been provided online over the years.

Having said that, I still use a 5.56 AR & 55 gr fmj (M193) when I'm trying to get rid of sounders/eradicate pigs on my place outside of deer season. It's cheap(er) than premium/hunting bullets, I'm not worried about losing the brass & the action is fast, so ANY shot that presents itself gets taken. It's surprisingly effective & works for me for eradication efforts. YMMV
 

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One aspect to consider when hunting with a .223/5.56 is the wide variation in barrel twist rate, typically 1:7 to 1:9 but can go from 1:6.5 to 1:14. I've done extensive testing of .224 caliber bullets and taken coyotes, hogs, deer, and pronghorn with them (some with 5.56, most with the Valkyrie). Other than twist for proper bullet stabilization, I have not found lead-core bullet expansion to be affected by twist rate. Copper/monolithic bullets are a different story. Faster twist rates create more centrifugal force and more bullet expansion. 1:9 is probably the most common .223/5.56 twist rate but doesn't cause much copper bullet expansion. 1:8 is a bit better but 1:7 really "wakes-up" TSX, E-tip, and GMX bullets. The copper 70 MKZ expansion is not affected by twist rate so long as the bullet is stabilized (1:9 or faster). Also, a 24" barrel can add about 100 yards of effective range over a 16" barrel.

If you have a 16" 1:9 twist barrel, better to stick with a lead-core bullet like the Fusion or the MKZ if you desire a copper bullet. The common 1:9 twist 16" barrel may have contributed to some of the hunting failures with the .223/5.56.


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One aspect to consider when hunting with a .223/5.56 is the wide variation in barrel twist rate, typically 1:7 to 1:9 but can go from 1:6.5 to 1:14. I've done extensive testing of .224 caliber bullets and taken coyotes, hogs, deer, and pronghorn with them (some with 5.56, most with the Valkyrie). Other than twist for proper bullet stabilization, I have not found lead-core bullet expansion to be affected by twist rate. Copper/monolithic bullets are a different story. Faster twist rates create more centrifugal force and more bullet expansion. 1:9 is probably the most common .223/5.56 twist rate but doesn't cause much copper bullet expansion. 1:8 is a bit better but 1:7 really "wakes-up" TSX, E-tip, and GMX bullets. The copper 70 MKZ expansion is not affected by twist rate so long as the bullet is stabilized (1:9 or faster). Also, a 24" barrel can add about 100 yards of effective range over a 16" barrel.

If you have a 16" 1:9 twist barrel, better to stick with a lead-core bullet like the Fusion or the MKZ if you desire a copper bullet. The common 1:9 twist 16" barrel may have contributed to some of the hunting failures with the .223/5.56.


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The amount of testing you have done is impressive, thank you for your work. After reading your findings on rifling twist rates /bullet RPM I have been very intrigued by it.

Just doing some basic math (I did these calculations for a 6.8 mm projectile @ 2400 fps not a 5.56, but the trend is clear), with all else being equal, a twist rate increase of one, 1:11-1:10, bullet RPM increases 11%. The increase in force generated by rotation is about 15%.

Increasing twist from 1:11 to 1:9 on a 6.8 bullet adds about 30% to the forces pulling the bullet apart. Granted a .223 bullet and the rotational force generated might be smaller, an increase of roughly 25%, however a 25% increase in any force is significant.

Xman in your data collection have you noticed any difference twist rate may have on terminal performance of fragmentation rounds? While I won't recommend .223 fragmentation rounds for deer and hogs, you would think the increase would be devastating on varmints?
 

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I first learned about the effects of twist rate on bullet expansion when a forum member was using the 110 TTSX (made for the 270 Win) in his 6.8. He said and showed from recovered bullets that he had adequate expansion. I wasn't getting much expansion at all in my 6.8. The only difference was his barrel was 1:10 twist and mine was 1:11.25. When I down-loaded my 270 with 1:10 twist, I duplicated his expansion.

I tested the Nosler 64gr BPB for expansion in 1:6.5 to 1:11 twist and their expansion all looked like clones. I cross-checked with a couple of 62 gr Fusion with no difference with expansion. I have not tested fragmentation bullets for twist rate. The only fragmentation bullet I have hunted with is the 6.8 SST.

I have shot .224-cal E-Tip and MKZ at velocities and twist rate that cause the pedals to separate from the bullet shank and continue penetrating independently at short ranges. In 1:7 twist, they migrate out at about a 45 degree angle when detached during terminal performance testing. The coyotes I have shot in close with these two rounds just drop. They have been effective on hogs as well.

Based on this experience, I would support your assessment that fragmentation bullets could benefit from faster twist.
 
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Federal Fusion 223 is a great economical bonded bullet performer. If you can find them that is. I used them myself for the back up gun after "Some One" forgot their rifle that day.
 
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