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I've not dealt with one of those but it seems like I've heard about stickiness complaints from other guys over the year. I know the fellow I chat with over in the UK has had some issues on his 25X45. Maybe on a true bolt gun the rotation of the head and that big old handle in concert with the bigger extractors negates what would be felt that is built in with mechanical advantage hat you don't have on this platform?

Greg
 

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I agree. Unlocking and cocking ramps, like in my Mosin91/30 are slick now with a little smoothing.
It would take a different cam grove profile in an AR bolt.
If I can keep this to moderately inconvenient without doing something drastic it would be nice.
At least I'm not ripping rims off 22N cases :)

Maybe sitting in the chamber unless all the pressure is gone allows some low pressure soot to collect on the necks instead of blowing in your face :)
If the pressure drops, the neck relaxes but there is some warm low pressure gas still hanging around.
(just making stuff up)
If anyone gets bored some afternoon and has 8 1/2 minutes to spare, here's my 96 10 shot string. Lane 11 (not a single X this string)

 

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I'm far from an expert on this set up but I would think that part of what you might be seeing is due to the lack of rings. I could be all wet on that but I'm believing if you had this in three barrels you are looking at the nature of the beast. The bolt guns have the extraction cam power going on to help with and you aren't going to get that here. The "heavy bolt lift" from shooting top end loadings in a bolt gun is one thing that lets us know we are getting way up there. You are seeing this far earlier n your straight man against friction scenario. The tapered neck I mentioned would be a potential aid here just like it is in an AR but I don't think you could go in and remedy that without setting the barrels back a couple of turns and getting a reamer that would clean up the neck for you. Of course with the melonited tube you are SOL on that remedy.

Keep posting up as you go. This is something I never thought about as I contemplated doing exactly what you are doing.

Greg
 

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I built five (5) 22 Nosler uppers and only shoot factory ammo. ALL have stickage after 15 to 25 shots.

The side charger handle makes a quick chamber and bolt cleaning a PITA. But at least my brass looks pretty good, although I don't reload. I usually take two 22 Nosler uppers and one lower to the range, shoot 10 rounds with one upper and switch to the other upper. After 20 rounds per upper I take the BCG out and clean with spray cleaner and swabs, yet still get stickage.

The only thing I don't like about the 22 Nosler is the stickage, don't really care about the brass and love the accuracy from some of my barrels. Shoot the cheap 62 grain most often, have some 55 I need to shoot, and 70 and 85 RDF seem way under 1 MOA if I do my part.

My next trial is to shoot an upper with a lighter carrier as the side charger carrier is HEAVY. Try a carbine stock instead of walnut rifle stock and no adjustable gas block or key. Maybe open the barrel gas hole slightly too. Also install a JP spiral gas ring as they have VERY low resistance. See if all that cuts the stickage issues.

All have been NOGAS single shot ARs at one time, a couple I installed gas blocks and gas tubes, and still stickage.

I only polish the carrier trigger ramp is I see a lot of contact and possibly burrs. Most of my rifles use SSA-E triggers but also trying the Hiperfire single stage. I think the carrier ramp tracking depends on the carrier, I use stainless steel, melonite QPQ coated and chrome coated carriers with the 22 Nosler.
 

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Strange that just a little swabbing helps.
No carbon-no stickage.
Stickage just might be something that I will have to live with.
The cut ejector doesn't push the bolt back against the extension lugs when you try and unlock.
Ejector spring force is nothing when firing but it is when manually manipulating things.
Two areas I'm going to look closer at is the cocking ramp and the unlocking side of the cam pin groove.
Both are probably critical for a semi but if I disable the carrier (plug the gas key) so it won't accidentally be used in a gas upper then maybe I can get the bolt to unlock easier.

Material property Finger
Auto part

I've got spares so no big deal. Carriers last forever :)
 

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No measurements but later I will measure an unmodified carrier with this one.
Red is reflection off toaster.

Trigger gauge on the charging handle, no spring no bolt.
Hammer cocking SEEMS to take less force.

Now the Cam groove. Changed the start of the unlocking ramp in the groove. Before and after picture. Now to plug the gas key.
Auto part

Reflections make it look worse than it is. Cam pin seems to run smooth.
 

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Trying to apply mods from other weapons, if they seem to fit.
The cocking ramp, delayed contact and initial angle.
The cam groove slowing the initial unlocking.
Polished a little more after the last pic.
The Bolt spring is a Lantac Side Pull idea.
The cut extractor spring a bolt gun mod.
General sharp edge (where not needed) blending.
Plugged the gas key so this BCG can't chamber a round with a gas tube.
and almost forgot. An H3 buffer :)

Will be a couple weeks before I get to test it live fire.
Dry fire and cycle looking for wear indicators.

Tool
 

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Cycled the bolt many many times with a dummy round and I can tell it is much smoother now.
Have to see how the polishing holds up pulling stuck rounds out but the contour seems to match the path of the cam pin closely.
Looking at maybe getting a borescope after Christmas. Would be a nice toy to have.
Here's the cam groove after the Final (?) polish.


One other thing, I have no marks inside the upper from the standard cam pin.
 

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Up from my after range nap.
Went to Pascagoula for another 600 F-Open match.
and again beat my bestest with a 581-12X, 96.83% and NO 8's this time :)
Using the chamber swab every 10 rounds or so I got by without any hard stickages.
 

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Got to the 100yd range today, headcold and all but it beat staying home.
Don't worry, got no snot on the rifle :)

Shot mostly the 28" barrel to compare CCI 41 and CCI 450 primers.
Load was 88 ELD over 9.795 Carats of IMR 4350.

Started off with a 3 into .3 group (0.298 MOA) then alternated CCI 41 and 450 across the top row of targets
Circle Visual arts Recreation Art


Then adjusted down 2 clicks so I could use the same row. Repeated on second row. All 3 shots groups so far.
One called flier, and another one because of this crazy planet alignment thingy going on.
Button Recreation


Then back up a click for 5 shots with each primer in row 3
Circle Recreation Shooting sport Button Games

I videoed the last 5 (row 3, target 2) Don't worry, it's only 92 seconds long.
Uploaded as Private, changed to Public, Sorry.
and another video, 10 shots a little faster from a GG&G adjustable cant Bipod not shown in the pics above. Row 4.

 

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I didn't know you have a 28" barrel, I thought the longest telephone pole 22 Nosler barrel was 24 inches
Ordered from X-caliber on a 25% off sale.
28" bull, .925 at the muzzle, 1:7, 5R, Recessed target, Would be +2 IF it had a gas port, which it doesn't.
that saved me a little weight not having to put a blocked off gas block on it :)
Sorry, thought you knew about it.
[URL="http://
 

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Nice, but you know I want to know how much the barrel weighed. Guessing 64 ounces? And you saved from 1.2 to 2.2 ounces with no gas block and gas tube.

And the next question is how much extra velocity the additional 4 inches adds? Those groups are nice and tiny, one of these days you will put 3 bullets through one hole.

Interesting where the rifle balances.
 

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the whole rifle weights 21.3 lbs. I weighed the barrel but don't remember.
The gas Block thing was a joke :)
I'd put one on for a couple extra ounces but I really don't want any discontinuities on the barrel.
Bad enough it's stepped for a block.
My goal is to stay under 22.0462262 Pounds (max weight limit for F-Open)

Weight does a few things for you (probably why there is a maximum F-Class weight but not a minimum).
Total weight absorbs recoil energy and gun movement.
Weight overhang, polar moment at the rest loading point and weight on the front rest resist jump and twist.

Longitudinal balance doesn't matter too much (I don't think) for a gun on a rest and bag.
Vertical C/G might. Weight below the bore might help more than weight above the bore.
Or maybe weight near the bore line? Who knows.
If you don't have to carry it, weight is your friend


I've adopted a new minimum standard for my shooting.
3 into .3, 5 into .5, 10 into 1, 60 into 1.5 and Never ever more than 2.
Working to do that beyond 100yds is my goal.

As far as the velocity difference I'm not sure. In 22 Nosler I have a 20" 1:7.7, a 24" 1:8, and this 28" 1:7.
been concentrating on improving my 600yd scores so I will feel comfortable going to a thousand.
 

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I posted a bunch of junk in another thread that really doesn't have anything to do with the 22N.
So, I copied it here and deleted it from there.

The early 22 Nosler brass was it's downfall.
Soft brass imprinting ejectors, extractors ripping rims seems to be common place (with the gas shooters).
The sharp edged untrimmed heads and they would lie about it being a problem.
"It was designed that way to better function in an AR" Let me tell you something Nosler,
Lying to your customers ain't good.

I've had to cull some neck cracks (about 5 so far) and at least a dozen for oversize pockets.
LONG BEFORE 10 firings. This crap won't last 10 firings unless you load girl loads
.
Counting the loading error case crunches, about 30 cases total trashed so far.
I lost about a dozen doing a run and gun through grass and shooting from car trunks.

This last trip to the 100yd range I had 3 rounds that were a little loose in the pockets, but not enough that I culled them out.
It's the silver primers on at the top of the picture (CCI450).
The lower ones (CCI 41) had some leaks. Got a little oil smoke when they were fired. Marked those at the range.
Since this wasn't a comp, just practice, I used my 3rd, 4th, and 5th fired brass (now 4/5/6). Looks like some more culls coming.

Even without gas these get beat up after just a few firings.
Recreation Games


Deprimed one of the leaky cases.
It was one of the early ones that I beveled the rim.
Brass Metal Ring Fashion accessory



I shot 86 88s,
a box of 50 62s for the brass,
and 20 75s that I had left over.

blasted bolt with brake cleaner on the right.
Auto part Automotive wheel system Wheel Disc brake Rim



BIG difference from what I was getting with the Sharp Rims.
 

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Another trip to 600 with the 22N heavy gun.
Drove 2 hours+ through fog to get there but the range was socked in until about 11:30.
You could not SEE the 600 berm.
While we were waiting I sold my Bald Eagle Rest, Oops, and shot from a Bipod.
Atmospheric phenomenon Natural environment Fog Natural landscape Wetland
Gun Firearm Rifle Trigger Air gun


Overall score was the same as last time, 96.83% but made 17 X's this time.
The six strings were 95, 98, 99, 99, 94, 96
AND
My Highest, Most Best, string of all time :)
A pair of 99's for a 198. First time ever :) :) :)
Even uploaded a 12 minute video of the 198.
Guess you can tell I'm a little excited :)
 

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Received a box of 250 22N Dogtown brass from Midway.
Sorting out some for my next match I ran across one that was way out of line. 6.8 grains heavier than the rest.
Looks like Nosler made an Oops.
Is this on purpose maybe???
Maybe some 22N brass coming down the pike for 6.8 bolts?
Just too close to be an accidental strike.

So far just this one.

Ammunition Brass Metal Cylinder Auto part
Product Brass Glass Metal Copper
 

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Sort of expected a response to this.
With the complaining about the rebated rim of the 22N, the 6mm Hagar brass, bumped, necked, and trimmed to use 6.8 bolts seemed to be the way to go.
The batch I bought of Hornady 6mm Hagar brass was good stuff. The latest run offered through Creedmoor Sports had to be sorted to get good cases to sell.
Glad I passed on that stuff.
Now Midway has come out with Dogtown 22N brass and ammo. Cheaper than the name brand Nosler stuff. I bought some and will shoot it soon.
Some are complaining it's the same soft stuff. It does look good through.

Then I get this one oddball case with a 6.8 head but a 22 Nosler body. A factory bumped, necked, and trimmed 22N case that fits a 6.8 bolt.
Accident? I don't think so. The heads are likely turned and rolled to a machine program. To plop one out that matches what many 22N reloaders are looking for isn't an accident.
Couple this with the "Clearance" of 22N Dogtown brass @ Midway makes me think a 22 Nosler 2.0 is in the works.
This will require those that want to convert from .223 to 22N to buy a new 6.8 bolt. A new bolt really isn't a bad idea anyway.

Maybe I'm wrong and have a rare collectable mistake, but I doubt it.

Anyone else have one of these?
Or has everyone been sworn to secrecy :)
 
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