If you read my post in the new members section - I recently purchased a brand new Barrett Rec7 6.8 SPC - it was in brand new, unfired condition - I attached a Nikon 4.5-14x40mm Buckmaster BDC scope on a Nikon single piece M-223 scope mount. Prior to heading the range I made sure the scope was level and boresighted with a Laserlyte boresighting kit. I purchased 3 boxes of Lellier & Bellot 110 gr polymer tip bullets, 2 boxes of Hornady 110 gr custom V-max, 2 boxes of SSA 110 gr Barnes TSX, and 1 box of 85 gr Barnes TSX. Even with boresighting I started off hitting over the target. I quickly dialed down to the target but once I got on the target the bullet strikes were very inconsistent. I'd get a 2 within an inch and the 3rd shot of the group would be 3" away. I couldn't get enough to consistency to effectively dial the turrets down to a point where I felt I was at a good zero. Once I get a reasonable idea that I was zeroed - or at least as good as I thought I was going to get, I started trying to tack the heart of a deer target. I shot 5-6 round on the edge of the heart all the way around the heart in a circle - never getting one round in the center of the heart. It was the wierdest thing. I was shooting at 100 yards - less than 5 mph wind. So I finish with the Lellier & Bellot first, then the Hornady - then the 85 grain SSA and I fired the first shot of the 85 grain and I wasn't even on the target.. I couldn't believe it. So I fired the rest of the box trying to figure out if it was trigger pull or the scope or the rifle - and I hit all around the target. It took me forever to get down to about 3" groups with the Lellier & Bellot and Hornady and now I felt I was back to Nothing.. I then switched to the 110 gr SSA Barnes TSX and I was on the target but still all over the place. At that point I was down to one box of SSA 110 TSX and I need to hold onto that box in case I get a chance to go hunting next weekend - the range I was at, Angeles Shooting Range in Los Angeles, does not carry any 6.8 SPC - I've had to purchase all of my 6.8 ammo on-line and I have 6 gun stores in my immediate area - but anyway - back to the shooting - I have never experienced such inconsistency in my life. I was a rifle expert in the military, I've made hunting kills at greater than 400-600 yards, I usually zero very easily although I prefer to use a shooting vice to do it because you just shoot a good group and then dial the crosshairs to the center of the group & your done - but I didn't do that this time. Has anyone had this problem with this round?! I usually prefer precision bolt action & Leupold scopes - so I'm thinking that may be a problem - maybe it was the trigger?! Maybe it's the Barrel?! I don't think I've ever had a 16" barrel.. I'm just trying to figure out what happened and where to begin with getting this rifle on target. I bought this rifle for hunting, I can't be off 3" at 100 yards on a shot on an animal.. that isn't ethical - I'll end up hitting them in the ass or missing completely at any decent ranges.. I'm looking for any advice from people with experience with AR 6.8 rifles with a stock trigger & 16" barrel.. I've made kills before at 400 yards with a Nikon Buckmaster scope, so I don't think it's the scope - even though it's only a $300 scope, I trust it. Or maybe it's me..? I guess I'll get a shooting bench and try again and see if it's better.. I think my first step is a drop in 3 lb trigger - other than that I have no idea where to start.. Anyway - sorry for venting - I'm definitely Frustrated, I spent over $3000 on this rifle - but I'm looking for some help & advice - Hope everyone had a great weekend - thank you for your time.. :a22:
1st day at the Range with my new 6.8 Barrett Rec7 - Disappointed!
JawbrkrCTC01
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1st,This was mentioned before. I think that scope is sitting on top of the flip up rear sight. It if is touching, its too close.
2nd, the barrel is chrome lined. You need to shoot the living **** out of it to break it in. It needs to get hot! Chrome lining is not precise and can vary in thickness by a couple thousands of an inch from the chamber to the muzzle.
3rd, you are excited. make sure you use a very stable rest when you shoot next time. Pull on the strap attached to the front lug to eliminate any slop in the receiver during recoil or get a Accuwedge ($5). Also, if there is any slop in the buttstock/buffer tube, remove the stock from the buffer tube, put a small strip of electric tape against the length of the buffer and slide the stock back on. I have done this to a couple rifles and it works great. Or you can just slap on a lower with a full size stock if you have one available.
Just my .02 cents. Barrett makes a great product in my opinion, but since I build my own configurations for my purposes, I havent found a completely suitable rifle in their product line that I care to get into besides the M82A1.
this being said, I had the same issue with a chrome lined barrel in 5.56. I'll leave the manufacturers name out of it, but every manufacturer has this issue with chrome lining.
2nd, the barrel is chrome lined. You need to shoot the living **** out of it to break it in. It needs to get hot! Chrome lining is not precise and can vary in thickness by a couple thousands of an inch from the chamber to the muzzle.
3rd, you are excited. make sure you use a very stable rest when you shoot next time. Pull on the strap attached to the front lug to eliminate any slop in the receiver during recoil or get a Accuwedge ($5). Also, if there is any slop in the buttstock/buffer tube, remove the stock from the buffer tube, put a small strip of electric tape against the length of the buffer and slide the stock back on. I have done this to a couple rifles and it works great. Or you can just slap on a lower with a full size stock if you have one available.
Just my .02 cents. Barrett makes a great product in my opinion, but since I build my own configurations for my purposes, I havent found a completely suitable rifle in their product line that I care to get into besides the M82A1.
this being said, I had the same issue with a chrome lined barrel in 5.56. I'll leave the manufacturers name out of it, but every manufacturer has this issue with chrome lining.
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Okay - well I've been gone a few days - but wow - I really appreciate all of the good advice.. I've mounted many of my own scopes, just for starters and usually don't have a problem. Normally, Like I said before, I shoot precision bolt action rifles in .308 and I've had Buckmasters before, mounted on a Remington 673 Guide Rifle - got a black hawaiian sheep at 400 yds with it.. That Buckmaster - Guide Rifle combo would shoot better groups than a Remington 700 I had with an HS Precision thumbhole stock, trigger job, muzzle brake, badger bolt knob, and Leupold Mark 4 - also like I said before, I was a rifle expert in the military and I can get 1/2 inch groups with scopes I've mounted - BUT - Those rifles all have trick triggers with 3 lb or less trigger pull - so I'm not at all positive it isn't me.. I was frustrated with the trigger and it may be trigger pull - but it was All over the place, even when I felt I got a good trigger pull. I'm going to move it back to 50 or maybe even 25 yds just to zero and then move out to 100 - I'm also going to try to borrow or rent a shooting bench or vice - and I plan on getting a Wilson Combat or other aftermarket trigger - the trigger pull is clearly too heavy.
Another person asked about over-gassing - this is a piston system, so I shouldn't have that issue. The break in period may well be an issue and it is chrome lined all the way back to the action, so that may be a valid reason. I'll have to see if it gets better.
With regards to ammo - I am very limited - as I said, I plan to use this rifle for hunting and, I know this is ridiculous, but because of that, my ammo is limited - here in California where I plan to hunt, I cannot use ammo that contains lead - because the California Condor may end up eating my spent rounds, so I have to use all copper ammo - so my ammo is limited - I plan on sticking with the SSA 85 gr or 110 gr TSX and I'll zero that and stick to it. Never the less, I've never seen a rifle shoot off the paper from changing ammo..
The mount is a single piece Nikon M-223 mount with a forward cant and the rear of the scope is a mm off of the rear sight - although it may touch when fired, it's not touching now. I'll consider moving it forward or back to get it away from the flip up rear sight. But the rings themselves are solid and torqued down.
I don't see any issues with the brake or the crown inside.
I'm going to start with 25 & 50 yard shots change the trigger and get a vice and see if it changes.. It may be me secondary to the trigger pull - after that if I still have issues I'll consider a barrel swap or other issues.
One thing that did bother me is that the trigger is very basic and the buffer tube and stock are Commercial size which doesn't lead me to believe that they spared all expense to make a quality rifle. I was really surprised that the stock was commercial. But the forearm/handguard and iron sights are top quality and very comfortable - and reviews of the rifle have been nothing but excellent, even with the 1/10 twist.. So I'm torn.. I'll try to figure out what's wrong with either the rifle, the scope, the rings, or me - and hopefully keep the rifle - one thing is for sure - 3 MOA groups will not suffice for hunting - so something has to get fixed or replaced. I wanted to go hunting this weekend or next, now I'm not sure that I can and I spent over $200 in ammo last weekend that I can't afford to replace at this point - so my hunting is going to be delayed which makes me even more disappointed. Anyway - thank you for taking your time to read my petty complaints and personal issues - I really appreciate your time, consideration, and advice.. Have a great week.
Another person asked about over-gassing - this is a piston system, so I shouldn't have that issue. The break in period may well be an issue and it is chrome lined all the way back to the action, so that may be a valid reason. I'll have to see if it gets better.
With regards to ammo - I am very limited - as I said, I plan to use this rifle for hunting and, I know this is ridiculous, but because of that, my ammo is limited - here in California where I plan to hunt, I cannot use ammo that contains lead - because the California Condor may end up eating my spent rounds, so I have to use all copper ammo - so my ammo is limited - I plan on sticking with the SSA 85 gr or 110 gr TSX and I'll zero that and stick to it. Never the less, I've never seen a rifle shoot off the paper from changing ammo..
The mount is a single piece Nikon M-223 mount with a forward cant and the rear of the scope is a mm off of the rear sight - although it may touch when fired, it's not touching now. I'll consider moving it forward or back to get it away from the flip up rear sight. But the rings themselves are solid and torqued down.
I don't see any issues with the brake or the crown inside.
I'm going to start with 25 & 50 yard shots change the trigger and get a vice and see if it changes.. It may be me secondary to the trigger pull - after that if I still have issues I'll consider a barrel swap or other issues.
One thing that did bother me is that the trigger is very basic and the buffer tube and stock are Commercial size which doesn't lead me to believe that they spared all expense to make a quality rifle. I was really surprised that the stock was commercial. But the forearm/handguard and iron sights are top quality and very comfortable - and reviews of the rifle have been nothing but excellent, even with the 1/10 twist.. So I'm torn.. I'll try to figure out what's wrong with either the rifle, the scope, the rings, or me - and hopefully keep the rifle - one thing is for sure - 3 MOA groups will not suffice for hunting - so something has to get fixed or replaced. I wanted to go hunting this weekend or next, now I'm not sure that I can and I spent over $200 in ammo last weekend that I can't afford to replace at this point - so my hunting is going to be delayed which makes me even more disappointed. Anyway - thank you for taking your time to read my petty complaints and personal issues - I really appreciate your time, consideration, and advice.. Have a great week.
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Checking the crown takes a decent magnification, better done with a borescope.
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I was wondering about the piston too, I know Barrett has a solid reputation but anyone can make a mistake. Between the sensitivity of piston systems and the unique mechanics of the 6.8 compared to the 5.56 they might not have the timing quite right. If the action is cycling prematurely it could be causing inconsistencies.
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Contact SSA and talk to them about their experiences with Barret rifles, they have used more brands of 6.8 rifles than anyone and know how their ammo preforms in most of them and which ones have the most problems. I'm sure they may can shed some light on this for you.
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I let my brother in law shoot it as well - he go the same result - two good shots in a tight group and then a 3rd and/or 4th shot 2-3" away.. It was wierd.. Like I said though, maybe it's me and the trigger pull - I'll have to get to the range again to find out.. but I am tapped for ammo and funds right now, so it won't be for a few weeks..
the action felt smoother than any AR platform action I've ever experienced - you couldn't even tell it had cycled.. So if it is the piston or the timing, I couldn't feel it. It's the smoothest operating AR I've ever had.. but it's also the only Piston system I've ever had.. I loved the action and the operation of the rifle. Funny thing is, the guy next to me had a brand new LWRC and his rifle wouldn't even cycle the spent cartridge out of the chamber - he was having nothing but problems and LWRC is as expensive or more expensive than Barrett.. I was quite surprised, he said he was taking it back to the store..
I'll figure it out one way or another - thanks for all of the advice - I really hope it isn't the crown.. that would suck.. but replacing the barrel is something I eventually want to do anyway - I don't want a 16" barrel - that's too short for me and my application - so I can fix that.. I'm going to start with an aftermarket trigger and go from there. Hope all is well - have a great weekend.
the action felt smoother than any AR platform action I've ever experienced - you couldn't even tell it had cycled.. So if it is the piston or the timing, I couldn't feel it. It's the smoothest operating AR I've ever had.. but it's also the only Piston system I've ever had.. I loved the action and the operation of the rifle. Funny thing is, the guy next to me had a brand new LWRC and his rifle wouldn't even cycle the spent cartridge out of the chamber - he was having nothing but problems and LWRC is as expensive or more expensive than Barrett.. I was quite surprised, he said he was taking it back to the store..
I'll figure it out one way or another - thanks for all of the advice - I really hope it isn't the crown.. that would suck.. but replacing the barrel is something I eventually want to do anyway - I don't want a 16" barrel - that's too short for me and my application - so I can fix that.. I'm going to start with an aftermarket trigger and go from there. Hope all is well - have a great weekend.
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Not trying to bash your rifle but for the money you could have got a much better rifle from Bison, ARP or Rainier. I never bought into the piston hype so I can't speak for that. DI works fine for me. If I did a lot of 3 gun fast fire stuff, the piston might be a little better.
That rifle would be in the mail now, on it's way back to Barrett. Hopefully they will get you up and running.
That rifle would be in the mail now, on it's way back to Barrett. Hopefully they will get you up and running.
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Hope you get it sorted out soon. Anyone can produce an occasional poor performing product. If it is a poor performing product it is how they take care of it that counts.
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These results @ 50 yards?
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136 Posts
Exactly how did you bench rest your rifle?
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Hmmmm.......it may just be a coincidence but I was reading another thread on another forum about a guy having similar accuracy problems with his new BCM upper. He also has a Nikon scope (M223) and a Nikon M223 scope mount. I wonder if there could be a problem with that mount??????
Here is the thread I'm referring to (note: this guy took some heat from the other members, I think because it is a BCM upper which is supposed to be TOP TIER and he was complaining about accuracy issues)
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=485311
It might be worth it to remove your scope, bring your target in a ways and shoot with your iron sights to see how it groups with them.
Here is the thread I'm referring to (note: this guy took some heat from the other members, I think because it is a BCM upper which is supposed to be TOP TIER and he was complaining about accuracy issues)
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=485311
It might be worth it to remove your scope, bring your target in a ways and shoot with your iron sights to see how it groups with them.
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a wandering zero is usually indicative of a bad scope or mounting system.
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@2000ssm6 - I have read a lot about the contrast between DI gas system AR rifles and the new Piston systems and from what I've read the real advantages circle around the build-up in the gas tube in the M4 Carbine 16" barrelled versions - I guess study's have found that the build up of carbon in the gas tube occurs more rapidly in the carbine size rifles with a barrel 16" or less than it did in the M16 version with longer barrels - and the gas version also has more trouble firing when dirty, muddy, sandy, or after being immersed in water - if none of those things apply to your rifle - then you probably have no need or desire for the piston system. In reading articles & reviews in magazines like Black Rifle and the Book of the AR15 - I am seeing a trending toward the piston system - for example, Barrett began the AR platform with a DI rifle, the Barrett 468, and have since transitioned to the Rec7 Piston system - so I felt that they probably did enough research & testing to justify the change. So I wanted to be ahead of the curve so to speak. I still trust and believe in Barrett as a company and my rifle - I believe that the core product is good - I just think I may need to make some subtle changes to make it right for me. We'll see how it goes - but I'm optimistic. Have a great weekend.
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Thank you nemo - I was thinking last night that maybe I would re-mount the scope.. Take a look at the picture, should the scope be further back? I usually just mount it based on where I place my cheek on the stock and according the eye relief of the scope - but I'm not used to an adjustable stock - so I can change where I place my cheek - I was just thinking that maybe I should re-position the scope.. and again, I do believe that the trigger pull has a lot to do with it. Possibly all to do with it - because I had similar issues with a Remington 700 SPS tactical and once I changed the trigger, added an HS Precision Thumbhole stock, and added a muzzle brake, the groups tightened up to less than 1/2 MOA.. So maybe it's just me?! Thanks for the advice.. Have a great weekend.
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I completely agree with this statement. If you have another mount I would use it with that scope and see what happens. If you still have issues I would consider the scope the culprit and replace it with something else.
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I also agree.
I worked at an indoor range helping sight in hunting rifles before deer season and every rifle that shot to different points of impact at 25 yds had a bad scope, once they brought a new scope the rifles all zeroed no problem with only 2 or 3 shots.
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Well that would suck - although I plan to purchase a Nightforce 2.5-10x32 at some point, I don't have those funds right now - the Nikon Buckmaster 4.5-14x40 BDC I have is Brand New - so it would suck if it was the problem.. I'm hoping its the trigger.. Thanks for the advice, I'll check it out.. Have a great evening.
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Can't you just return/exchange the scope, take it back and get a new one, you can even call Nikon and I'm sure they will replace it for you for free.
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