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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Nexgen "12"

Nexgen​
2014 - The next generation of 308 sized platforms. Finally an option for those too heavy to carry DPMS LR rifles sitting in the back of the safe. For years many have said they wish there were an AR12. A rifle bigger than an AR15 but without the weight of the AR10. In 2009 I designed a "12" more or less. A 7lb 16" barrel 308 rifle is possible. Standard 308 Pmags can be used in DPMS style 308 lowers with any AR15 handguard on our receiver. These Nexgen uppers can be built to fire any 308 based cartridge.
Unlike the new DPMS GII, with the Nexgen any AR15 handgard can be used and mount to your existing DPMS LR type lower receiver.



We're working on it, a friend out in Colorado is machining the billet receivers. I must start slow with this since it is a huge outlay of cash. There will be 1 receiver design to start, it will only work with DPMS LR lower receivers. Standard charge handle design with a port door. I have ordered 16" fluted 308 barrels and 18" fluted 260 barrels to start. Should make a 7-7.5lb bare rifle depending on what stock and AR15 handguard are used.

Those that have shot an AR10 should have noticed the clunky movement of the heavy carrier. The porting and extra amount of gas it takes to move that carrier effects how an AR10 shoots. They have never been as accurate as the AR15 platform. The movement of that carrier also makes it much slower to get back on target. The Nexgen changes that. The movement feels like an AR15, the site plane is the same as an AR15. The handguards can be any AR15 handguard. Except for the recoil from the 308 it's tough to tell it's not an AR15. You have to feel the difference.

I'm trying to estimate the cost on these things. We will produce the billet receivers, carriers(BCGs), bolts, barrel extensions and barrels. All of those parts are specific to the Nexgen and be sold in the beginning as sets, other caliber barrels later. All of those parts should run around $850. That is apx what you can buy the same DPMS LR308 parts for. The difference we're using billet receivers, 9310 alloy bolts, carriers and extensions and 4150 Melonite treated barrels with 5R rifling. IT'S ALL ABOUT THE PERFORMANCE.
You should be able to buy the rest of the upper parts including a $180 rail and have a complete upper for $1100. A complete rifle should cost apx 16-1800. considerably less than any LMT, Larue, POF, LWRC or Knight some of which sell for almost $4000.
 

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Uh, ok!! What would COAL be? What mags would it use? Got any pics or drawings of this cartridge next to a .308 and 6.8 and 5.56 or? Sorry I've heard of the "12" mentioned before but I'm not familiar with the cartridges. What bullet weight and velocities can we expect?
 

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This has always been interesting to me. The fact that the lower has to be an AR10 lower is what would hold me back initially. In the end, would a proprietary intermediate size lower be custom made for the purpose?


Heinous typos thanks to autocorrect.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Uh, ok!! What would COAL be? What mags would it use? Got any pics or drawings of this cartridge next to a .308 and 6.8 and 5.56 or? Sorry I've heard of the "12" mentioned before but I'm not familiar with the cartridges.
I have the x45s set up for a 2.6 OAl but that depends on the bullet design, green bullets will be longer than the same weight lead core. The lower of the 12 is a DPMS 308 lower so it uses 308 Pmags. I have a few loaded rounds at the shop, I'll try to get some photos in a few days. This platform will shoot the 308, 260, 243, 6.5x47 and 6.5 Creedmoor so there is really no reason for someone to choose a smaller wildcat for personal use when every thing else is more powerful and easier.
 

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Ready and waiting..... a lot of work but worth it in the end. I'm sure you might be able to sell 1 or 2 of those. LOL
 

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Discussion Starter #6
This has always been interesting to me. The fact that the lower has to be an AR10 lower is what would hold me back initially. In the end, would a proprietary intermediate size lower be custom made for the purpose?


Heinous typos thanks to autocorrect.
No. One of the reasons an AK is so reliable is the extra room in the action. We'll use the extra length to increase the dwell time by lengthening the cam pin track. If and when I have special mags made I'll make built in feed ramps to aid the approach angle.
 

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I love seeing all the creativity you have going on! What is the expected time frame you are looking at for this thing?
 

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Ready and waiting..... a lot of work but worth it in the end. I'm sure you might be able to sell 1 or 2 of those. LOL
An unbelieveable amount of "stuff" has gone on since I started the 12 project in 2009. It should have been my #2 priority but things got in the way. It's time to push it to the front again. A lightweight 308 may sell...hope it does.
 

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I love seeing all the creativity you have going on! What is the expected time frame you are looking at for this thing?
HA!! no comment.
 

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I have the x45s set up for a 2.6 OAl but that depends on the bullet design, green bullets will be longer than the same weight lead core. The lower of the 12 is a DPMS 308 lower so it uses 308 Pmags. I have a few loaded rounds at the shop, I'll try to get some photos in a few days. This platform will shoot the 308, 260, 243, 6.5x47 and 6.5 Creedmoor so there is really no reason for someone to choose a smaller wildcat for personal use when every thing else is more powerful and easier.
I see, we "won't be so cramped for space" now.... I'm interested and will be watching this for sure.
 

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No. One of the reasons an AK is so reliable is the extra room in the action. We'll use the extra length to increase the dwell time by lengthening the cam pin track. If and when I have special mags made I'll make built in feed ramps to aid the approach angle.
Now that makes this even more interesting! I like the innovation but damn you Harrison, now I have to throw more stuff in the EE so I can afford an upper when they are made.

The Creedmoor is this most interesting to me. What caliber would you want to start with? 308 for its common nature and mag availibility?


Heinous typos thanks to autocorrect.
 

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Cool H I am still interested in getting onewhen you get theses going. I still remember talking to you back in ..... What 08or was it 09 about the features troops would want on the "1" and the "12"


Damn Auto Correct !!!!!!!!!
 

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Could you provide some projected/expected bullet weights and their respective projected/expected velocities?
 

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HA!! no comment.
No timeframe???? I will have to make sure to stay up to date on reading this post as I don't want to read 256 pages later to get caught up by the time its out. LOL
 

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No timeframe???? I will have to make sure to stay up to date on reading this post as I don't want to read 256 pages later to get caught up by the time its out. LOL
Seeing how this thread has popped to 16 posts in less than 30 min, after 7pm, on a week night, I would say your prediction of 256 pages is a little low....
 

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An unbelieveable amount of "stuff" has gone on since I started the 12 project in 2009. It should have been my #2 priority but things got in the way. It's time to push it to the front again. A lightweight 308 may sell...hope it does.
If the Ar-15 was available in 308 I don't think the 6.8 would be near as popular. While it's a really good little round I would bet a lot of people here would opt for the 308 over the 6.8 in the same size package. I'll bet it will sell.

I am assuming the 12 will be just a little longer since the AR-10 lower is slightly longer? Am I correct and could you tell me how much longer?

I've been thinking about a pistol build but if this is going to be coming available I think I'll save my pennies.

In the time it took me to write this there has been 6 posts, I'd say you have our attention.:a06: or what Aspp said
 

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I have an early one from H, mine has an 18 inch 7mm-08 barrel, and a UBR stock, you can still tell it is definitely a 308, while it is lighter then my buddies AR10's it isnt as light as my 68 SPC.

I like mine but I dont get to shoot it as much as I would like.

Edit since I just read the whole thread:
You can put me down for one of the 68x45 uppers.... As H stated the AK is set up to have more play with the gas system by having the ejection port longer (basically), if it short strokes a little the case is still ejected and it can still strip a new round, if it is set up correctly everything works well, if you have higher pressure rounds it just ejects them a little harder and has some more room to bounce around before it grabs and chambers the next round. Having a larger platform for these odd sized cases would be a good idea.

Put me down for testing....
 
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