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  1. #1
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    Default Win 748 loads ~= H335 ??

    I have a couple # of Win 748 laying around that never worked too well for me in .223 Rem, but I'd love to find a use for it...though it does not seem to be loved by 6.8 aficionados here. Before I give up on it, I thought I'd ask:

    The Hodgdon manual for .223 Rem & 63gr Sierra SP lists the same max of 25 grains for both H335 and Winchester 748.

    In burning rate charts, Winchester is listed ahead (faster than) H335.

    748 is probably not nearly as ideal as H322 or Rel 10X, but it seems it should be fast enough that it might be okay for practice ammo. The Hodgdon manual lists only the max loads for 748 in the .223, and no data at all for 748 in the 6.8x43.

    Any thoughts on using starting loads for H335 as a starting point for development?

    Thanks!
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  2. #2
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    That is exactly what I would do. Use the H335 info as a guide.
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  3. #3
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    The burn rate chart I have puts H322 at #100, Winchester 748 at#103, Re10X at #104, and H335 at #108. A quick check of the 6.8 load chart only shows a few loads tested using 748. I would like to see more information on this powder to see if there is any potential to it.
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Equalizer_2 View Post
    The burn rate chart I have puts H322 at #100, Winchester 748 at#103, Re10X at #104, and H335 at #108. A quick check of the 6.8 load chart only shows a few loads tested using 748. I would like to see more information on this powder to see if there is any potential to it.
    When my pre-order is filled (fingers crossed) and the Xtreme upper arrives, I'll swat up some loads and try to generate some data. The downside is that all I have is Remington brass (which everyone says is about the lousiest available for the 6.8) and Hornady & Remington bullets, so it won't be a good test of accuracy potential, mostly just charge weights and velocities for moderate loads with 110gr & 115gr bullet weights.

    Perhaps I'm wrong, but I can't even recall the last time I saw Winchester propellants on the shelf anywhere. IIRC, I've seen it in on-line in places, but this doesn't mean it was in stock and available. For this reason alone, I suspect Win 748 is not going to be a Big Deal either way. I'm just not going to dispose of $50 worth of propellant without doing everything I can to find a use for it.

    I'm way too cheap for that.
    There are two kinds of control in this world, self-control and others-control.
    A society of the self-controlled is peaceful and productive.
    A society of others-controlled is a prison.
    I prefer the former.

  5. #5
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    The burn rates on charts are actually closed container explosion test, results.
    In the case of the 6.8 10X is faster than 322 and 322 is faster than 748.
    I had some decent groups with 130gr Speer and Sierras with 748 but it is a little slow compared to 335 and the rest.
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  6. #6
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    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by constructor View Post
    ...I had some decent groups with 130gr Speer and Sierras with 748 but it is a little slow compared to 335 and the rest.
    That's surprising. I haven't tried 748, but was planning to get some based on one of the pages listed in the reloading manuals sticky thread (about half way down). It's shows 748 to be almost 100 fps faster than the next powder for the 130 gr. bullets. Wonder if it's a misprint?
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by constructor View Post
    The burn rates on charts are actually closed container explosion test, results.
    In the case of the 6.8 10X is faster than 322 and 322 is faster than 748.
    I had some decent groups with 130gr Speer and Sierras with 748 but it is a little slow compared to 335 and the rest.
    Thanks! That's good to know (but disappointing, I suppose). My "read" on the ballistics of the 6.8 tell me that for my purposes I'll be almost entirely staying with 90-110 gr bullets once I get things settled in. I really like the idea of a bullet that's ~2x heavier than the 5.56's moving at nearly the same speed.

    If I can't pack enough 748 in the case for halfway decent velocity, or it's simply too inefficient-burning and leaves too much residue in the carrier & bolt to bother with, then I'd end up just wasting primers & bullets (and they are too expensive to waste).

    This raises the aggravating non-usefulness of burning rate charts. I realize that interior ballistics is Ph.D. level stuff, and that case volume, case size, bore diameter, peak pressures, pressure curve timing and a host of other variables impact the actual burning rate...but why can't the providers of canister-grade propellants offer their customers more than the blunt instrument of loading data we get?

    Oh well. I've got AA2230, BL-C(2), H335, H322, IMR 4198, IMR 4064, and even a little Brigadier 3032 laying around after 25 years of half-A experimentation...maybe something in the cabinet will prove useful. OTOH, maybe my best bet is to return to the sticky on loads and get it right the first time.

    Grump, grump, grump.
    There are two kinds of control in this world, self-control and others-control.
    A society of the self-controlled is peaceful and productive.
    A society of others-controlled is a prison.
    I prefer the former.

  8. #8
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    David, I am so busy I don't know which way to turn but if you will rattle my cage again in a few days I'll try to find some of my old test results. You'll just need to remind me.
    SIX5 -6.5mm on a 6.8 case-vel of the 6.8, BCs of the 6.5
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    The 6.8 is the #1 choice for hunting deer and hogs with an AR15

  9. #9

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    748 has been a long time favorite for my .223 loads
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by constructor View Post
    David, I am so busy I don't know which way to turn but if you will rattle my cage again in a few days I'll try to find some of my old test results. You'll just need to remind me.
    H - Have you ever thought about compiling a load chart with all the different bullets and powders tested?
    How they worked in different barrels (1/12 DMR, 1/11.5, 1/11SPCII, etc.)
    Between you,Tim and HTR; I would imagine a great "wealth" of information. It would save us all a lot of time asking the same questions over and over. Not to mention a lot of reloading components!
    (In your spare time) LOL


 

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